by Dansk 32 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Leolaia
    The word "died" in Rom 6:7 is refering to baptism.

    See also Colossians 2:12 and Mark 10:38-39.

  • reneeisorym

    Sinners will receive the punishment of death -- Death means hell Rev 20

    People who are saved from sin (by faith in Jesus) are then saved from death and therefore receive life -- life means heaven.



  • Perry

    That interpretation of 'death wipes sin away" always irked me. If dying could wipe out our sins as WT indoctrination inculates in the members, why doesn't God just ressurect people after they die so they can get it right the second time? Like Paul says, if righteousness (and thus the right to life) could be gained by something other than Christ, then his death was unnecessary.

    Galatians 2:

    19 For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, [or by any other means] Christ died for nothing!"

    The WT spin on "the wages of sin is death" shows their utter hostility and ignorance to Christ and the work that he wrougth on Calvary. Sin MUST be punished according to God just as crimes are punished in our own societies.That is why God punished his own Son (Himself) so that people who accept His pardon are already considered punished. "By His stripes you were healed."

    Of course, this doctrine is the least of the troubles for the WT members since the en masse disobedience and rejection of Jesus Christ at each Memorial publically illustrates that they have no connection to Christ what-so-ever. They will gladly admit that they are not his brothers and turn around and imagine that they have some other way of making peace with Jehovah other than the one he provided.

    This is why the WT must minimize God's view of sin because they minimize God's solution to it. Christ is a problem for the WT the same way he was a problem for the Pharisees. To turn your back on the realities of sin is also to turn your back on the realities of Christ.

    The biblical message is quite simple. Adam's sin and death was imputed to me whithout asking or consulting me if it was ok. Similarly for those that accept
    God's pardon through Christ, His righteousness and life is imputed to me without my having done anything to deserve it.

  • reneeisorym

    So if I said to you "The wages mowing my grass pays is $50"

    You would expect to get $50 after mowing my grass.

    SO ... if you sin, you should expect to get death.

    Now how on earth does this translate into your sins being paid for by death?

    Don't forget the rest of the verse: Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus or Lord."

    So God is saying that you earned death but he's going to GIVE you eternal life.

  • sspo

    I cannot beleive that some of you went from the doctrines of the Watchtower to accepting that a loving God would burn people in hell for eternity.

    I hope ths loving God that you worship won't burn your mother,father, brothers and sisters and children in hell.

    Enjoy your loving Jesus.

  • Perry


    We went from dis-belief in Christ to belief in Christ...not one belief to another. Hell is somewhat controversial. The great Christian writer C.S. Lewis view would probably have JW's mindlessly and eternally pitching WT literature, since he believes that we create our own little hell by our own disillusionments in this life. Since hell is essentially a separation from God and he is merciful even to the wicked, and has a sense of justice, he might just let us receive eternally what we essentially impute to others. What does it matter to God? They don't want Him anyway. Why not give 'em what they want. That is my current view.

    As for actually burning in Hell. Hitler thought it a good thing for millions of Jews to burn in ovens. He was part Jew. I say judge him by his own standards. Maybe God agrees, maybe not. Not my business.

    You mock God who offers you a pardon for your crimes against your neighbor and against God. Maybe you'll have an eternity with modern comedians who make their living mocking others. Eternity is a long time to come up with new material though.

  • sspo

    Perry You said

    You mock God who offers you a pardon for your crimes against your neighbor and against God. Maybe you'll have an eternity with modern comedians who make their living mocking others. Eternity is a long time to come up with new material though.

    I'm not mocking God, I mock the stupidity of people that used to think they had the truth with the Watchtower and spent decades with them

    and now they have found another " truth" and their pushing it on others the same as JW.

    I have no problem with anyone's faith and what they want to beleive but to once again hearing they found the truth, please give me a break.

    You used to think you were an expert with God's word as a JW, now many on this board they feel they are experts with Jesus and try to explain the scriptures.

    Let's be open minded and eventually we'll all find out what happens when we are 6 ft. under and who has his approval.

  • Stealth453

    Another in a long line of inconsistencies in the fairy tale we call the bible.

  • nicolaou
    SO ... if you sin, you should expect to get death

    Reneeisorym: Can I just pick up on that little word if?

    Are you suggesting that I have a choice as to whether or not I sin? Can a baby be born sinless or is it born sinful? As I understand conventional Christian dogma all humanity has inherited Adamic sin so there is no choice - no if - about it.

    If I don't want to mow your grass I can choose not to and forego the $50. Can I choose not to sin and thus forego death? Of course not! The very idea that death is the wages due to a choice made to sin is ridiculous.

  • Perry


    If the soul cannot die, and if a soul does not wish to be pardoned by God, what is God to do? Granting an eternity of conscience without fellowship with Him and giving a soul the same treatment he wished upon others while he himself is quilty of the same things when he was alive seems fair to me. What is not loving about that? It certainly seems like you are mocking God by saying that he is not loving by offering you a pardon.

    Have you ever lied? Have you ever stolen anything.... no matter how small? Have you ever looked at a married woman with lust, or looked lustfully at any woman while married?

    Be truthful. Then by your own admission you are a liar, a thief and an adulterer. And, that's just three of the ten commandments.

    When you are on the receiving end of a big lie, a theft or an adultery have you ever wished that person pain, discomfort or worse to punish them? Then can't you see that you yourself are the one justifying God. God judges you how you judge others. You don't need me or anyone else to teach you that, you already know. What we only wish, is actually no big deal for God. We are participants in our own eternal reality right here, right now. And, that IS fair and loving.

    Let's be open minded and eventually we'll all find out what happens when we are 6 ft. under and who has his approval.

    The first part of the sentence is most unwise because the pardon offer has an expiration date.... your death. The second part of that sentence shows you are still thinking like a Witness. The bible teaches that "there is no one righteous, no not one". You cannot be approved by God at all! It must be imputed to you. You must ask for it.

    I'd be honored to be your witness to your asking Jesus to be the lord of your life and save you. You could have a "come to Jesus moment" right here on JWD, be declared righteous, and never be judged at all. Will you ask sspo?

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