If Jesus could talk to Satan... (page 6)

AuldSoul

agapa37,

You are very odd. I didn't change my whole argument, at all. I stand by my initial argument. I responded to additional points raised. Your facility in comprehension of conversation shows your JW background.

Scully

Why can't your JW family have a doctrinal discussion with you?

1. Because the WTS tells them not to do that.
2. Because their faith is so weak that it cannot withstand dissenting information from any source whatsoever.
3. Because the belief system is so full of logical flaws that it cannot withstand logical scrutiny from anyone.

agapa37

Jesus did not tell Satan to "get lost". At any point. Maybe you are thinking of what he said to Peter?

Maybe since your departure from the truth your memory of scripture departed as well. That usually happens to those who leave, they also stop studying the bible.

Then Jesus said to him: "Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service. Then the Devil left him, and, look! angels came and began to minister to him. (Matthew 4:10) Looks to me Jesus told him to get lost.

fullofdoubtnow

Scully said:

Why can't your JW family have a doctrinal discussion with you?
1. Because the WTS tells them not to do that.
2. Because their faith is so weak that it cannot withstand dissenting information from any source whatsoever.
3. Because the belief system is so full of logical flaws that it cannot withstand logical scrutiny from anyone.

I totally concur with those points.

I have read the posts of the jw apologists on this thread, and reading their answers are rather like reading the watchtower, as they obviously would be, as they use that far more than the bible anyway. The governing body know very well that most of their doctrines are built on to say the least flimsy scriptural evidence, so they instil a fear in their followers of anyone they regard as an apostate, rather than allow them to discuss any belief that conflicts with theirs.

tetrapod.sapien

Maybe since your departure from the truth your memory of scripture departed as well. That usually happens to those who leave, they also stop studying the bible.

agapa,

the premise that JWs are well versed in scirpture is flawed. JWs are well versed in WTS docrtine, not in scriptuire. they are as well versed in exegesis as any fundamentalist xian group is. your inability to see allegory and metaphor in these matters is mirrored in your comments.

the arrogance of implying that jehovahs witnoids study the bible, while ex witnoids don't, is self evident to observers on the matter. i bring it up only to show you that as ex wits we don't take psychological abuse from wits (or apologists) anymore.

Looks to me Jesus told him to get lost.

looks to me like you take the bible WAY too literally.

tetra

tetrapod.sapien

You can add one more witnees who refuse to have a conversation with you

having conversations with JWs is certainly not high on my list of things to do.

tetra

Stealth453

Good point.

metaspy

AuldSoul,
Yes I see where you are going with the influenced - Jehovah's decision to allow Job to be tested was influenced (since he probably would not have put Job through such a test without Satan's prompting).

Point 3 is very pertinent to the three questions I asked you. You will immediately see why. If you believe their standards should be used to determine at least whether they are the organization God is using, do they measure up on point #3, or not?
No. WBTS does not measure up in "basing all its teachings and standards on the Bible". It falls short on many occasions. If you use their list, then there isn't an earthly organization.

Jesus did not tell Satan to "get lost". At any point. Maybe you are thinking of what he said to Peter?
Agapa37 already mentioned Matt 4:10 - "Go away Satan!", which was what I was thinking of when I wrote that. I should have quoted it the first time. Sorry.

I think before you decide you would not be disfellowshipped you might want to ask a local elder. Perhaps you could frame it in the form of a hypothetical question, not related to Jesus.
I might do that. But considering I have very little faith in what elders have to say, I will probably just do my own research.

I thank you for the intriguing discussion,
Metaspy

IronClaw

AuldSoul, do you know whether or not a JW is allowed to quote scriptures at a former JW in response to questions?

The Claw.

avidbiblereader

If Jesus is my family's exemplar, and they believe I am an apostate, why are they not allowed to follow Jesus' example?

Good question, find other acts and beliefs that don't follow in his example and you will see that this is just another one they sidestep. Jesus stated this in

Matt 15:3-8 3 Jesus replied, “And why do you, by your traditions, violate the direct commandments of God? 4 For instance, God says, ‘Honor your father and mother,’and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death. 5 But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ 6 In this way, you say they don’t need to honor their parents. And so you cancel the word of God for the sake of your own tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote,

8 ‘These people honor me with their lips,

but their hearts are far from me.
9 Their worship is a farce,
for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’

abr

If Jesus could talk to Satan...

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