YOU WONT BELIEVE THIS!! ONE OF THE JWs THAT EGGED OUR HOUSE KNOCKED

by Lady Liberty 56 Replies latest jw friends

  • willyloman
    willyloman
    Is that true there were millions of christians in the tombs?

    I don't have the citations in front of me, perhaps someone will post it, but there is a fascinating bit of business in a WT from the 1950s. In the article which discusses persecution of first-century Christians, the WTS quotes a historical source as saying that in one single event "144,000 Christians were put to death."

    A few months later, a subsequent WT edition carried a Question From Readers asking how this was possible, since all first-century Christians were annointed and that would mean the literal 144,000 were "sealed" way back then.

    The Society waffled with its answer, saying something like, "Well, those 144,000 may have professed to be Christians, but clearly a number of them must have been unfaithful."

    In other words, the WTS was saying that only some of those people - who willingly died a horrible death rather than compromise their faith in Jesus Christ - were just faking!

    Un-freaking-believable!

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    Brilliant !, Lady Liberty and the Black Pearl

    The guy only knew of "apostates" what he had read in the WT. He must have feared entering their den. Now he knows you to be reasonable, knowledgeable and willing to discuss "spiritual matters" a lot more than his brothers do. Above all you showed Christian love , in a way he could not have expected.

    We may greet him here one day....

  • stevenyc
    stevenyc

    Lady Lib, do you expect this to be given as an "experience" at an assembly?

    steve

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    Don't feel alone, I would venture to say the majority don't understand the deeper things of the Borg.

    And yet the Society criticizes Christians for believing in God as a trinity without fully understanding it.

    *** w74 2/1 p. 75 Does Christianity Require Belief in a Trinity? ***

    Those accepting the Trinity doctrine, however, cannot explain or understand whom they are venerating. God is a great mystery to them. Does this not suggest that something is amiss in trying to speak of God in terms of a mysterious Trinity?

    One could just as well say:

    Many of those accepting the dates 607 B.C.E. and 1914, however, cannot explain or understand how they arrive at those dates. The chronology of 1914 is a great mystery to many of them. Does this not suggest that something is amiss in trying to anchor one's eschatological hopes to a mysterious date?

  • JWdaughter
    JWdaughter

    (The first article mentions hundreds of thousands of Christian dead) *** w51 9/1 518 Hated for His Name ***

    Diocletian assumed the crown A.D. 284. At first he seemed friendly to the Christians, but in the year 303 he gave in to persuasion and opened the tenth persecution, probably the most ferocious of all. Suffocation by smoke, forcible drinking of melted lead, mass drownings and burnings, breaking on the rack of men and women alike ran the empire with blood. In a single month 17,000 were slain. In the province of Egypt alone, 144,000 such professed Christians died by violence in the course of this persecution, in addition to another 700,000 who died as a result of fatigues encountered in banishment or under enforced public works. *** w52 1/15 62 Questions from Readers ***

    ó According to the article “Hated for His Name” in the September 1, 1951, Watchtower, hundreds of thousands of Christians died in the “ten persecutions” starting in Nero’s time, 144,000 dying in Egypt alone during one of the persecutions. How can this be harmonized with the Scriptural limitation of 144,000 placed on the number being in Christ’s body, and which position was the only one open to Christians during those centuries?—J.A., Dominican Republic.

    The article did not class with any finality the individuals that died during these persecutions, but spoke of the results in a general way. Note that a key qualification was made in the case referred to in the question: “In the province of Egypt alone, 144,000 such professed Christians died by violence in the course of this persecution, in addition to another 700,000 who died as a result of fatigues encountered in banishment or under enforced public works.” The victims are identified as “professed Christians”, not Christians in fact. Many of those persons might have been caught in the wave of persecution, but may never have actually preached the truth or followed in Jesus’ footsteps, being only professed Christians. They knew the world they lived in was rotten and they were listening to the message of the Christians and willing to die for it even though not in line for the high calling in Christ Jesus. Many professed Christians today might be willing to die for their faith, but still not be Jesus’ footstep followers and meeting the Scriptural requirements for such.

    Reading this, I am wondering what qualifies one to have a 'high calling in Christ Jesus'? Dying for your faith is not enough without accurate knowledge (WT style?) Why woould going to jail w/o accurate knowledge then qualify the WT to be God's chosen channel of truth (on occassion, and subject to change, of course-and new light!)

  • Bodhisattva1320
    Bodhisattva1320

    WOW!!! This is great! I hope your neighbor continues to question his religion. You and your husband are awesome!

  • becca1
    becca1

    WOW! That is soo thrilling. What a nice way to reach a resolution to your bad experience.

    Also, thak you for the info on the catecombs and your sister's 607 chart. Both are very useful.

  • Honesty
    Honesty
    Is that true there were millions of christians in the tombs?

    And drawings of the fish symbol and crosses on some of the tombs and along the walls.

    The watchtower cult has lied in order to keep their demon god happy.

  • Honesty
    Honesty

    The Watchtower Society quotes sceular sources only when it coincides with their false doctrines and then they misquote them:

    ***

    w519/1 p.518 Hated for His Name***

    Diocletian assumed the crown A.D. 284. At first he seemed friendly to the Christians, but in the year 303 he gave in to persuasion and opened the tenth persecution, probably the most ferocious of all. Suffocation by smoke, forcible drinking of melted lead, mass drownings and burnings, breaking on the rack of men and women alike ran the empire with blood. In a single month 17,000 were slain. In the province of Egypt alone, 144,000 such professed Christians died by violence in the course of this persecution, in addition to another 700,000 who died as a result of fatigues encountered in banishment or under enforced public works.

    —Fox's Book of Martyrs

    Diocletian mounted the imperial throne, AD 284; at first he showed great favor to the Christians.

    In the year of Christ 286, a most remarkable affair occurred; legion of soldiers, consisting of six thousand six hundred and sixty-six men, contained none but Christians. This legion was called the Theban Legion, because the men had been raised in Thebias: they were quartered in the east until the emperor Maximian ordered them to march to Gaul, to assist him against the rebels of Burgundy. They passed the Alps into Gaul, under the command of Mauritius, Candidus, and Exupernis, their worthy commanders, and at length joined the emperor. Maximian, about this time, ordered a general sacrifice, at which the whole army was to assist; and like-wise he commanded that they should take the oath of allegiance and swear, at the same time, to assist in the extirpation of Christianity in Gaul. Alarmed at these orders, each individual of the Theban Legion absolutely refused either to sacrifice or take the oaths precribed. This so greatly enraged Maximian, that he ordered the legion to be decimated, that is, every tenth man to be selected from the rest, and put to the sword. This bloody order having been put in execution, those who remained alive were still inflexible, when a second decimation took place, and every tenth man of those living was put to death. This second severity made no more impression than the first had done; the soldiers preserved their fortitude and their principles, but by the advice of their officers they drew up a loyal remonstrance to the emperor. This, it might have been presumed, would have softened the emperor, but it had a contrary effect: for, enraged at their perseverance and unanimity, he commanded that the whole legion should he put to death, which was accordingly executed by the other troops, who cut them to pieces with their swords, September 22, 286.

    The Tenth Persecution, Under Diocletian, AD 303 — Fox's Book of Martyrs

    A city of Phrygia, consisting entirely of Christians, was burnt, and all the inhabitants perished in the flames.

    Sebastian, a celebrated martyr, was born at Narbonne, in Gaul, instructed in the principles of Christianity at Milan, and afterward became an officer of the emperor's guard at Rome. He remained a true Christian in the midst of idolatry; unallured by the splendors of a court, untainted by evil examples, and uncontaminated by the hopes of preferment. Refusing to be a pagan, the emperor ordered him be taken to a field near the city, termed the Campus Martius, and there to be shot to death with arrows; which sentence was executed accordingly. Some pious Christians coming to the place of execution, in order to give his body burial, perceived signs of life in him, and immediately moving him to a place of security, they, in short time effected his recovery, and prepared him for a second martyrdom; for, as soon as he was able to go out, he placed himself intentionally in the emperor's way as he was going to the temple, aprehended him for his various cruelties and unreasonable prejudices against Christianity. As soon as Diocletian had overcome his surprise, he ordered Sebastian to be seized, and carried to a place near the palace, and beaten to death; and, that the Christians should not either use means again to recover or bury his body, he ordered that it should be thrown into the common sewer. Nevertheless, a Christian lady, named Lucina, found means to remove it from the sewer, and bury it in the catacombs, or repositories of the dead.

    The Christians, about this time, upon mature consideration, thought it unlawful to bear arms under a heathen emperor.Maximilian, the son of Fabius Victor, was the first beheaded under this regulation.

  • GoingGoingGone
    GoingGoingGone

    Amazing!!!

    You never know where this might lead!!

    GGG

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