Question: In light of the "new light" how will they now explain...???

by Lady Liberty 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Lady Liberty
    Lady Liberty

    Hello everyone, I have missed all of you..

    Been away for a while and trying to catch up on the latest..which brings me to my question..

    There is much talk regarding the latest statement about the 24 elders guiding the organization from heaven right now as was apparently printed in the recent Watchtower. If they really begin emphasising this as some sort of damage control because of the growing amount claiming they are anointed, how will they be able to explain away their changing light on different subjects??

    Right now when cornered regarding subjects that have changed, they simply say it is "new light", they have made mistakes, and that they never claim to be perfect, after all they too are only human...Well, if the 24 elders have been actually running the show since 1914, then why the flip flopping of teachings??

    No longer will they be able to fall back on their current excuse of "new light" or imperfection. I think they are once again painting themselves into a corner.

    It may make it easier to reason with friends and family still in. What are your thoughts?


    Lady Liberty

    Here is the info. from another post from Ann O Maley:

    Watchtower January 1, 2007, 'The First Resurrection - Now Under Way!' p.28, after talking about Bible parallels:

    "Three and a half years later, in the spring of 33 C.E., he was resurrected as a mighty spirit person. Could it, then, be reasoned that since Jesus was enthroned in the fall of 1914, the resurrection of his faithful anointed followers began three and a half years later, in the spring of 1918? That is an interesting possibility. Although this cannot be directly confirmed in the Bible, it is not out of harmony with other scriptures that indicate that the first resurrection got under way soon after Christ's presence began."

    Contrast that with the soon-to-be-studied-again 'Revelation Climax' statement:

    "All the evidence indicates that this heavenly resurrection began in 1918, after Jesus' enthronement in 1914 ..." (p.103)

    You think they are introducing some 'wiggle room' in the chronology department?

    Also included in the study article is a reiteration that "the resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today." Naturally, this idea relies on the biblical parallel whereby 1st century John represents the modern-day 'John class' which is being clued in by the heavenly '24-elder group' as to the identity of the 'great crowd.' But still, I am surprised to see this re-stated.

  • OnTheWayOut

    I don't see that they will have any problems. They were being directed, but because they are human, they had to adjust their understanding from time to time, whether Jehovah, angels, or the 24 elders were doing the directing.

    If they clearly state that the resurrected 144,000 are directing them, allowing Great Crowd into the Governing Body, then they will allow more backpeddling as these guys are not AS spirit-directed as the anointed WERE. They will continue to say things as facts clearly established, and later, they will say why the rank and file were wrong to read too much into it, or why they had to adjust what they said. Same old same old- no problems.

  • yaddayadda

    This is not 'new light' at all. It is specifically taught in the Revelation Climax book and can be traced right back to Charles Rutherford in the 1920's.

  • skyking

    I read the article too mom and showed her that there is new light here. First they taught that after 1914 the resurrection started and the Society has been kicking back and forth for some time as to whether or not all the anointed would be in heaven before the Big A. Now they are saying that this is a maybe.

    Why do you think they are doing this? Because in 1935 if you were ten years old you are now 81. The Society can not claim that the anointed were complete at that time if they continue to claim that that group would feed his sheep at the appropriate time. They are all dead now except maybe for a few hundred. Thus time has proven once again that a false prophet is among us

    Just as the Generation changing they have to change that the anointed group was completed in 1935. This is the foundation to a major change for the BORG.

  • in a new york bethel minute
    in a new york bethel minute
    This is not 'new light' at all. It is specifically taught in the Revelation Climax book and can be traced right back to Charles Rutherford in the 1920's

    LOL charles rutherford.... amen brother/sister!

  • garybuss

    JEHOVAH gave to Jesus Christ a revelation of things that must come to pass, and Jesus sent an angel and caused John to write about those things in symbolic language. (Revelation 1: 1,2) That revelation discloses that the church of God, which is built upon Christ Jesus, the precious Foundation Stone or Rock, is composed of 144,000, who are also pictured as living stones. (Revelation 7:4; 1 Peter 2:1-10) John in this great revelation stands for or represents those persons on the earth at the time of the appearing of Christ Jesus at the temple, and such persons are anointed and are permitted to have an understanding of The Revelation.

    John was on the isle of Patmos when the Lord gave him that vision. He was first told of the sealing of the 144,000 who are to be associates of Christ Jesus in the royal house of Jehovah God. Then John says: "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands." (Revelation 7: 9) The words "After this" apply to the time of John's seeing these things. This also shows that the remnant, whom John pictured, would see or discern the 144,000 and that thereafter the remnant would discern the true meaning of the "great multitude" and pass this information on


    to others. The 144,000 are spirit members of God's organization and shall be for ever in heaven, whereas the "great multitude" is made up of "other sheep", or Jonadabs, or people of good will, who obtain the riches of earth and dwell for ever upon the earth in peace and endless joy. The Scriptures clearly show that it is after God has taken out or selected those who shall be of the heavenly class that he brings forth the "great multitude", and this he does shortly before the battle of the great day of God Almighty. ? Revelation 16:14.


    Concerning the "great multitude" the scripture reads that they "stood before the throne". The fact that they "stood" shows that they are approved by the Most High, because "the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous". (Psalm 1:5) Stand where? Would they have to go to heaven in order to stand approved before the Lord? Certainly not; nor would they have to be in heaven in order to stand before the throne, even in reference to position or with reference to approval. While standing before the throne those of the great multitude are shown to be hungry and thirsty, whereas if they were in heaven there would be no occasion for them to hunger and thirst. Those who are hungry and thirsty for spiritual provender are the ones on earth who are seeking to be fed on that which will satisfy their heart's desire. Manifestly the great multitude are here shown as standing before the judgment throne of Christ Jesus, that is, the throne of God and where God, by proxy, judges, that is to


    say, Jehovah judges by his beloved Son, to whom he has committed all judgment. It is written that those who stand before the throne are crying out: "Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb." ? Revelation 7:10.

    It was in 1914 that Jehovah put his beloved Son on the throne of authority. (Psalm 2:6) In the year 1918, or three and one-half years after enthroned, Christ Jesus began judgment at the temple. In standing before the Lord for judgment these need not be in heaven, for the reason, it is stated by Jesus, that when he assumes his throne for the judgment of the nations all nations shall be gathered before him, and surely these nations are not in heaven. "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: and before him shall be gathered all nations; and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats." ? Matthew 25: 31, 32.

    With whom does Christ Jesus begin judgment upon assuming his high office as Judge upon the throne? Not with the dead, but with the living. "The Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the [living] ... at his appearing and his kingdom." (2 Timothy 4:1) Christ Jesus is at the temple upon his throne of judgment and glory, and before him are gathered all the nations for the purpose of separating and judging. Even so the great multitude are "of all nations" on the earth, and are before Christ Jesus for judgment, which judgment shows that it is those of good will who take the side of the Lord and who become the "other sheep" of the Lord. To the "sheep" Christ Jesus says: "Come,


    ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world." These are the ones that get life eternal, on the earth. ? Matthew 25:32-46.

    Further describing the great multitude these words are used: "clothed with white robes." In verse fourteen of this picture is stated the means by which their robes are made white. The words "white robes" used in verse nine symbolically declare that members of the great multitude stand before the throne as approved ones.

    At Revelation 6:9-11 a class of faithful men is described who suffered martyrdom because of their complete devotion to Jehovah, and to them "white robes were given "But it is not stated that they first "washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb". The white robes given to those faithful men symbolically testify to their approval, without stating how they were made white.

    They were faithful unto Jehovah even unto death, proving their integrity; and while the scripture does not state that they washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb, other scriptures plainly teach that they had and exercised faith in the shed blood of Christ Jesus.

    Revelation 19:8 describes the Lamb's wife to whom is granted that she be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white. But that text has no reference to the great multitude. What, then, is pictured by the robes given the individual members of the great multitude with which they are clothed? These white robes picture that they are clean and approved. Cleanliness results by reason of faith in the shed blood of Christ Jesus,


    who loved us and washed us from our sins in his own blood. (Revelation 1:5) The great multitude by reason of their faith in the shed blood of Christ Jesus, and devoting themselves to God, thereby wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb and make themselves clean.

    Every human creature that obtains life must obtain it as a gift of God through Christ Jesus, and this is the only way; and all such must have their sins washed away by exercising faith in the shed blood of Christ Jesus. The people of good will, that is to say, the Jonadab class, are those who have faith in the shed blood of Christ Jesus as the only means of redemption and salvation for the human race, and these voluntarily agree to do the will of God; and in taking this step of consecrating themselves to God by faith in the blood of Christ Jesus they stand approved before the judgment seat of Christ, and this approval is symbolized by the white robes which John observed that they wore. These keep their robes clean by continuing in faith and devotion to God and Christ Jesus, his anointed King. The great multitude, therefore, could not come into existence until the Lord Jesus Christ appeared at the temple and began his judgment, and therefore the great multitude could not appear prior to 1918.

    End of quote:


    The identification of any great multitide in 1935 or certainly 1918 is a failed teaching because in order to be a member of the great multitude a person HAS to live through Armageddon. They were teaching that the world ended in 1914 and the great tribulation ran from 1914 to 1918 when God hit the "pause tribulation" button.

    The framework for the identification of the great multitude all changed, but the great multitude stayed. But it can't stay because the people died. And since the story of the identification of the great multitude is wrong by the facts, the story of the selection of the 144,000 is wrong too.

    Great multitude wrong = no great multitude = no 144,000 identified = no appointment.

  • truthsetsonefree

    I think it makes it easier to reason with some. It really depends on what it takes to convince that person that this is nothing but guessing and speculation. I am thinking of going to that WT study and seeing how it is presented.



    *** w00 1/15 p. 13 par. 18 "Keep on the Watch" ***

    18 Sixth, the number of genuine anointed disciples of Christ is dwindling, though some will evidently still be on earth when the great tribulation begins. Most of the remnant are quite elderly and over the years the number of those who are truly anointed has been getting smaller. Yet, referring to the great tribulation, Jesus stated: "Unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short." (Matthew 24:21, 22) Evidently, then, some of Christ's "chosen ones" will still be on earth when the great tribulation begins.*

    *FOOTNOTE: In the parable of the sheep and the goats, the Son of man arrives in his glory in the period of the great tribulation and sits in judgment. He judges people on the basis of whether they gave support to Christ's anointed brothers. This standard for judgment would be meaningless if at the time of judgment, all Christ's brothers had long since left the earthly scene.-Mathew 25:31-46


  • Woodsman

    The server on this site sucks, I just posted a reply and it got lost.

    Now all I want to retype is this.

    If the annointed all die before the end of the tribulation the WTS is screwed. They have commited themsleves most of the time to saying that the Tribulation will end on account of the annointed and the Christ will gather the annointed at the end of the Tribulation. If they are all dead then these things must have happened.

    I don't understand why JWs want the number to drop. The last memorial I went to the speaker was reassuring the crowd that even though there was hardly any annointed left it was ok.

    If I were a JW I would crap my pants if the annointed were almost all gone and everything in the world was still fine.

    See wt 8-15-00 Question from readers for interesting comments on the annointed, Armageddon and the great tribulation.

  • skyking

    Woodsman you say that the Questions from reader August 15 2006 mentions the anointed you must of miss-typed it says nothing about the anointed. Please copy and paste or give us the correct article.

    PLEASE with sugar on it.

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