two birds with one stone, without getting stoned. possible?

by TheKings 22 Replies latest jw experiences

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  freetosee

  Kings,

  You’re in a difficult situation and are just learning the dark secrets of the wts. There is so much they didn’t tell us. It must be an emotional rollercoaster!

  I think you’re right you should say SOMETHING, but the timing and wording is very important, because you don’t want the "wall" to go up.

  I was living at home when I realized many things. I kept most to myself and asked questions which directed some of my family to critical realities within the org.

  With all the stress you are having you need to straighten your life and care for your health. (I don’t want to sound preaching.)

  It is very late for me now and I need to go to bed. I will visit your thread tomorrow.

  One last thought, you are very lucky that you are young. Soon all this stress will be of the past and will have made you a stronger person.

  All the best,

  freetosee
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  TheKings

  thank you freetosee ...i'm really grateful for the help i'm getting here. it will prove invaluable.

  i've had my life straightened out for a year since all those troubles. i've got a job as a graphic artist, online...although my mom asks constantly if i'm trying to become casual friends with my employer :p with the money i'm getting i'm paying for the internet so she can no longer threaten to turn it off.

  i'm getting back to college next year and hopefully things will be much better once i can get out into the real world.
• 

  Mystla

  I, too, kept my boyfriend a secret for a long time. I was already out on my own, which made this easier. In fact we had been living together for over a year before I told mom about him.

  I don't have any advice about what to say to your family. I know none of them would ever have listened to any "apostate" info and would have quickly shut me out permenatly. They don't like my current wordly way of life, but I was never Df'd so they still talk to me. I figure the best "witness" I can give them about the WTS is to be happy and sucessful away from that religion.. which they think is impossible, of course. I should be miserable now that I am in the world:)

  I can tell you that not pretending any more feels great. Keeping my boyfreind a secret was a terrible strain on me, and once they knew about him they knew I wasn't an active JW anymore. It was such a relief!

  Misty
• 

  jwfacts

  There is no point talking to your mum about the WTS. From what you say, she is very committed to them so will not accept anything you say against it. Being a high control parent (like my own mother) I imagine she loves the fact the religion gives her the right to force everyone to live by her standards and beliefs. It would almost impossible for you to change her as she does not sound like she wants to change. All you will do is create far greater trouble for yourself.

  However, it is worth giving your sisters some information. This would have to be done subtly as if they are adamant it is the truth they too will create problems for you. There is some information to help you with ideas of what to discuss at http://jwfacts.com/index_files/5min.htm

  I recommend a conversation be filled with questions that go something like this.

  Why would you like to get baptised? - Because it is the truth

  Do you think that the reason you feel that way could be because you were raised a JW? - not sure

  When a person is raised a Mormon they also think they have the truth. Do you think it would be wise for them to study about some other religions before devoting themselves to the Mormon religion? - Yes

  Do you know if what the Witnesses used to believe 100 years ago is the same as today? - I think it was

  If the conversation is going ok you could then continue: There is some amazing things I have found out about the Witnesses. Possibly discuss the symbols they use to have such as pyramids and the knights templar, as shown at http://jwfacts.com/index_files/davinci.htm Talk about how for 30 years the went around telling people Armageddon was going to come in 1914 and when that was wrong the spent the next ten years saying it would come in 1925. It may be enough to get them to think, or if they get very angry with you it will let you know it is not worth bringing up with them again.

  One thing- they will immediately dismiss whatever you say by accusing you a reading apostate information. You can quite honestly tell them that that nothing you are saying is from apostates, everything you have mentioned is straight out of old Watchtower books.
• 

  TheKings

  yeah ... i look forward to the day when i introduce him. *cough* that will be when he pulls up in front of the house with a u-haul truck hahaha.. the worst news of all will be that his family is all roman catholic. the arch-nemesis of the wbts!

  when it got around that i was talking to people outside the org an elder pulled me aside and told me he knew a girl just like me who did that and now she's a whore in LA. lmao you hear so many stories that get passed around about people's lives sucking when they leave. i think girls that go out and get knocked up come back just for the security and support they will need during that time of crisis.

  the fear-mongering is repulsive.
• 

  TheKings

  However, it is worth giving your sisters some information. This would have to be done subtly as if they are adamant it is the truth they too will create problems for you. There is some information to help you with ideas of what to discuss at http://jwfacts.com/index_files/5min.htm

  I recommend a conversation be filled with questions that go something like this.

  Why would you like to get baptised? - Because it is the truth

  Do you think that the reason you feel that way could be because you were raised a JW? - not sure

  When a person is raised a Mormon they also think they have the truth. Do you think it would be wise for them to study about some other religions before devoting themselves to the Mormon religion? - Yes

  Do you know if what the Witnesses used to believe 100 years ago is the same as today? - I think it was

  If the conversation is going ok you could then continue: There is some amazing things I have found out about the Witnesses. Possibly discuss the symbols they use to have such as pyramids and the knights templar, as shown at http://jwfacts.com/index_files/davinci.htm Talk about how for 30 years the went around telling people Armageddon was going to come in 1914 and when that was wrong the spent the next ten years saying it would come in 1925. It may be enough to get them to think, or if they get very angry with you it will let you know it is not worth bringing up with them again.

  One thing- they will immediately dismiss whatever you say by accusing you a reading apostate information. You can quite honestly tell them that that nothing you are saying is from apostates, everything you have mentioned is straight out of old Watchtower books.

  you're right, my mom would not listen...she's happy being unhappy.

  my sisters are far more reasonable (and sane).

  however! my mother is really into history...i think if i ever hear them say the 607 BC date while studying i will mention that it's really 587 ...that will get her thinking.

  i'm not sure they will buy that i found it in old books... immediately the question will be: 'why?' ...they will answer it by saying it's just to prove jw's wrong because i want to do bad things (my mother's influence shining through).

  i think i could alternatively start an open discussion about jw's and why i stopped coming. letting them first tell me how they feel about it.
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  jwfacts

  There no easy answer as to how to get through to someone in a high control organization. Confrontation will always raise what are called 'thought stopping' reponses. Exactly as you said, the first thing will be 'you just want to justify your own bad behaviour'. The other one is always, 'where else would we go?'

  If you have an argument with them you will not get anywhere, and family usually argue, it is very hard not to as it gets very emotional. That is why I suggest you do it softly softly with only one sister at a time. Just ask some questions a few times to see how they think and why. Then introduce some information to them gently, and see how they respond. They will only leave if they want to. Try to work out if you can get anywhere with them without major confrontation.
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  jgnat

  I think you are doing all the right things, it will just take patience. You tell mom about the boyfriend when you are ready to move out. For your own personal independence, make sure you have enough to be on your own, just in case the boyfriend bails.

  Nothing tastes so good as freedom.

  In the meantimes, continue to expand your social network wherever you can. We can help with that. Remember to erase your history and your cookies after you leave here. Don't save your password to your PC. As for the sisters, how about letting them in on the real you? I find that siblings have to get to know each other as adults all over again anyways, you grow up so far and so differently. How about asking each one them for a once a month "date"? I also find that siblings act much more like themselves when you interact one-on-one. All of the childhood rivalries dissipate.

  On that date you can go for coffee, have a pajama party, play "truth or dare". The best way to expose your true self is slowly, after the person has earned your trust.
• 

  TheKings

  sounds good.

  i'll be sure to keep this thread updated on the...results. it's scary though...i honestly have no idea how they will react and i can usually read people like books.
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  BabaYaga

  CAUTIOUSNESS IS THE KEY!!!
  
  First of all, above all else, do not be condescending. Never imply that they are stupid for being where they are now. That will put up defenses and your good points will all go down the drain.
  
  Socratic method... ask questions, such as JWfacts has suggested. Let them come to the correct conclusions in their own minds, by hearing their own mouths say it.
  
  Cognitive dissonance... (psychological conflict resulting from incongruous beliefs and attitudes held simultaneously) in asking your questions, allow them to answer definitively things that contradict each other... then lovingly ask another question that points out the contradiction.
  
  One thing that seems to work marvelously is to say, "I know that this is nearly impossible for you to do, but I must ask you to try, even just for a fraction of a second, to ponder the question, "What if they're wrong? (pause) What if all of the people who refuse blood every day are doing it for no reason? What if all the people who are disfellowshipped still have Jehovah's love and favor and protection, how would we know?" Or something to that effect.
  
  Also, ask them if they are willing to die instead of taking blood. (We know what the answer will be.) Then, say, "Did you know that the Society has changed its stance on blood several times in the past few years? First no blood and no organs, then organs were okay, and now they allow certain portions of blood to be used (blood fractions.) Did you know that originally they did not allow vaccinations? Did you know that there is a website now that includes presently presiding elders who are fighting for a reform on the blood issue? (and here it is... http://www.ajwrb.org/about.shtml ) When they change their stance on it again, how many faithful witnesses will have died for nothing?"
  
  Of course the UN thing is AMAZING. The letter is on the UN site, if they are old enough to remember the scarlet colored wild beast illustrations!
  
  Best of luck and strength to you, Dear. Remember... PLANT SEEDS for thought... and then tread softly on the tilled soil and water delicately as needed.