Who is Jesus? Is he God? (page 14)

BelieverInJesus

mondo wrote...

When God identified Nebuchadnezzar as "king of kings," he did not say: "You are the king of kings of earthly kings." The qualifier you are adding... you are adding.

--------->No I'm not adding anything. You are incorrect. It's a literal interpretation of the fact Nebuchadnezzar is an earthly king! YOU, in a way, are putting him above God, they way you write it. Nebuchadnezzar, is a sinner, like you and me who fall short of the glory of God. Jesus and God are waaaaaay above Nebuchadnezzar. If I said that pilot is a "Pilot of Pilot's", that would not make him qualify as equal to the chief pilot of the airline! He would just be a great pilot of pilots. Only 1 Chief Pilot at the airline however.

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Nobody denies that Jesus is coming, but that doesn't mean the Father isn't in some way also. Not only does Isaiah 40:10 speak of it, but in a parable, Jesus spoke of it as well. See Mark 12:6-9. There Jesus is represented by the Son and God is represented by the owner of the Vineyard. -Mondo

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We are in agreement that Jesus is coming, and we are in agreement that the Father is coming in some way also......in the form of Jesus. Jesus is God. AMEN!!!

Your points on Rev 12-20 are off. I think your confused. Infact I think your probably scratching your head thinking....we'll that's what the JW's taught, but uh I uh hmmm don't know. Your either for or against Jesus. Every knee will bow, every tounge will confess, including you. Look at verse 16, what did he send his angel to testify about? The above verse's! It's Jesus speaking throughout. How can you just jump back and forth to interpret what you want the word to say? You can't, Jesus is God!

Mondo1

Deputy Dog,

Acts there says nothing about believing in a Trinity.

Mondo

Mondo1

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No I'm not adding anything. You are incorrect. It's a literal interpretation of the fact Nebuchadnezzar is an earthly king! YOU, in a way, are putting him above God, they way you write it. Nebuchadnezzar, is a sinner, like you and me who fall short of the glory of God. Jesus and God are waaaaaay above Nebuchadnezzar. If I said that pilot is a "Pilot of Pilot's", that would not make him qualify as equal to the chief pilot of the airline! He would just be a great pilot of pilots. Only 1 Chief Pilot at the airline however.
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So let us take your logic and apply it to Jesus and God. Simply because they are both called something does not mean they are both called it in the same way! Good! :)

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Your points on Rev 12-20 are off. I think your confused. Infact I think your probably scratching your head thinking....we'll that's what the JW's taught, but uh I uh hmmm don't know. Your either for or against Jesus. Every knee will bow, every tounge will confess, including you. Look at verse 16, what did he send his angel to testify about? The above verse's! It's Jesus speaking throughout. How can you just jump back and forth to interpret what you want the word to say? You can't, Jesus is God!
------------------------------ Do you realize that you did not actually address anything I said? You only stated that I am wrong and moved on. Why don't you address those issues? I would point out that the NA27 GNT specifically references Revelation 22:12 as an allusion to Isaiah 40:10.

Mondo

Deputy Dog

Mondo

Trinitarians believe that God is one being, with three co-equal, co-eternal persons. The Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God, but the Father is not the Son, the Son not the Holy Spirit, etc.

Why don't you find an Org. that doesn't try to deceive people with that lie called "Should You Believe in the Trinity" say what ever you like, but, you tried the same trick on us, with that comment about the father and son being the same person.

And your new translation is even more sickening than the first. Why don't you get something that is a bit more literal. This most recent one is nothing short of a paraphrase.

Now, who is getting upset?

Can you tell us more about how you bend the knee in Worship of Jesus

ellderwho

How does this help you? If God giving glory to Jesus makes Jesus God, Jesus giving glory to his disciples makes his disciples God.

Mondo1, what your doing is evading the most simplistic forms of Jehovah giving/sharing glory with His Son. Its really obvious you cannot make the cited scriptures into what you want.

You must reconcile them or get rid of em.

As far as Jesus own unique "glory" you've ingnored that as well, this is what you come up with:

Gladly. Luke 9:26 does it. You have two options.

Luk 9:26

For whoever becomes ashamed of me and of my words, the Son of man will be ashamed of this one when he arrives in his glory and that of the Father and of the holy angels.

You have answer what? So how does Jesus get his own glory??

Mondo1

DD,

It is one thing to get upset and somebody else's words, it is quite another to get upset with a complete distortion of God's word in translation. You did the former, I did the latter.

For how I worship Jesus, it is through praise and obedience.

Mondo

ellderwho

I used "attempt" because nobody can successfully take for themselves equality with God. What I'm saying is that he was already EN MORFH QEOU but in that MORFH he could either grasp for equality with God or not do it. If he did do it, it would only be an attempt, for nobody can successfully take equality with God for themselves. But he didn't do that. hUPARCWN is concessive, so although he was already in that form, he did not grasp for equality with God. He did not intend to "rape" it from God.

More fluff, your evading the idea of the verse, Its not something to be understood/grasped.

Why would Jesus grasping for equality be hard to understand?

Deputy Dog

Deputy Dog,
Acts there says nothing about believing in a Trinity.
Mondo

Never said it did. The Bible simply says there is no other Savior but God.

Mondo1

ellderwho,

I am doing something we call exegesis. I am looking at the text, and pulling from the text a meaning based upon what it says. You, on the other hand, are simply citing any texts that deals with Jesus, God and glory as though they prove something. You are not telling us how or why the prove what you claim, you are simply claiming they do. Sorry if I keep shooting down your arguments by a consideration of what they say.

For how Jesus gets his own glory, it is in a way similar to how the angels do I would imagine, but on a much greater scale. Jesus is raised by God to a high position, so that all will recognize who he is and what he has done and in such a way he is glorified.

Mondo

Mondo1

DD,

No, Acts is speaking of men actually, and amoung men Jesus is the only one. Notice it speaks of names given ****under**** heaven. Names under heaven are given to men. God's name is not under heaven, but it has eternally been his IN heaven.

Mondo

Who is Jesus? Is he God?

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