A JW with an impossible question

by jgnat 79 Replies latest members private

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  BluesBrother

  Jgnat, if this was from a poster of lesser standing than you , I would swear that this was a wind up!. But we know you, so I beleive it ..

  I agree with Purps. Restictions never (in my experience) include banning you from field service . If I were a witness, I would discuss this scripture with him:

  (Hebrews 12:5-11) . . ."My son, do not belittle [the] discipline from Jehovah, neither give out when you are corrected by him; 6 for whom Jehovah loves he disciplines; in fact, he scourges every one whom he receives as a son." 7 It is for discipline YOU are enduring. God is dealing with YOU as with sons. For what son is he that a father does not discipline? 8 But if YOU are without the discipline of which all have become partakers, YOU are really illegitimate children, and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we used to have fathers who were of our flesh to discipline us, and we used to give them respect. Shall we not much more subject ourselves to the Father of our spiritual life and live? 10 For they for a few days used to discipline us according to what seemed good to them, but he does so for our profit that we may partake of his holiness. 11 True, no discipline seems for the present to be joyous, but grievous; yet afterward to those who have been trained by it it yields peaceable fruit, namely, righteousness.

  You know and I know that his ruling is not from God, but you may lead on to that.
• 

  jgnat

  Deep question, garybuss. I'll try it on him.
• 

  blondie

  purplesofa, I thought that in the past too that unless you are mentally ill, they can't keep you from preaching. But the elders in jgnat's husband's area have been doing that to him for several years. The elders make the rules on this unless he complains to the CO/DO/Bethel headquarters which will make more trouble than it solves.

  This is an old quote but is there any change in the OD book:

  ***

  km12/74p.4QuestionBox***

  ?In a case in which a person, because of genuine repentance, is not disfellowshipped, is it none the less proper to restrict him from the preaching work under certain circumstances?

  When one is privately or publicly reproved, the information on page 168 of the Organization book applies. While it is true that certain restrictions may be placed on such individuals, it is good to note what is said on page 168 regarding the preaching work, namely: "The person would be free to engage fully in the preaching work and to report such . . . " Likely in the case of a notorious situation where one is publicly reproved, it would be the course of wisdom for that one to engage in the preaching work in a section of the territory where the problem is not widely known, at least for a while. It is good to keep in mind that the preaching work is a basic part of our service to God, and all who serve Jehovah should be sharing in it.?Matt. 24:14; 28:18-20.

  What about a person who has been reinstated following disfellowshiping? Should he be allowed to engage in the field service immediately? Yes, in harmony with the above thoughts he should be allowed to engage in the field service following reinstatement. As to other privileges in this regard we can be guided by what is stated in the Organization book, page 177.

  As to "restrictions," they are laid on a JW that has been privately or publicly reproved for something they could have been df'd for but the JC felt he was repentant. Restrictions have historically not lasted longer than about a year but can be lifted sooner and can be lifted one restriction at a time. The elders can also leave the restrictions in place indefinitely. The elders are supposed to meet with the person under restrictions about every 6 months to discuss their progress (I have never seen that happen though).

  Restrictions consist of the following but may include other:

  All privileges associated with being a baptized brother/MS/elder are removed.

  Must leave Bethel.

  No auxiliary/regular/special pioneering privileges for at least a year.

  No commenting at congregation meetings (no reading scriptures either)

  No TMS talks.

  When restrictions are lifted is up to the elders on the JC and can follow you from congregation to congregation.

  I too wonder what the scriptural basis for not allowing someone to go door to door who is not a danger to the community.

  Blondie
• 

  zev

  AH.....but i have seen restrictions even for field service in my old congregation. it is unusual, but it does happen. and now that i think about it, one case involved my sister. and she was no threat in anyway at all, and she wasnt a knut job. jgnat, use a little reverse psyco on this situation. jw's always say you can win a mate over with your actions and bring them into the "fold". use the same philosiphy (sp) ..... kill him with kindness. win him over. show him that 'postates ain't all we're cracked up to be.
• 

  Lady Lee

  The Bible says God is love. Christ said love was more important that anything else.

  Where is the love in these rules?

  If you were to discipline a child who wanted to make amends would you put limitations on his desire and ability to what is required?

  Is that really what God would expect of people?

  My perspective is that this eis emotional and spiritual torture.

  If he hasn't read Toxic Parents you might want to get a copy and go through it together and look how families, regardless of what kind of family (they do refer to themselves as brother and sister so there is a family aspect to all this) work to help or hurt.
• 

  jgnat

  Oh, slimboyfat, my husband is so deep in the ca-ca with the elders, blondie figures it will take years for the elders to forgive him. He's worn out his welcome with one congregation and he's trying to start over in another. Elders do talk to each other, of course, and the new congregation has been alerted to his 'problems'.

  For one, he married me on the sly. Kept it a secret for months. I finally took the bull by the horns and showed up at the hall.

  For two, he confronted a brother at the hall for gossipping behind our backs. The only reason my husband knew was that I was corresponding online with another member of the congregation, and she gave me the whole inside scoop. The elders, of course, were far less interested in the gossip problem than their activities were being broadcast over the 'net. They bullied out the name of the mole, and she was interrogated by the elders. The girl was told she'd never be invited to another social event, ever, if she associated with either of us again. She left the organization over the dust-up.

  For three, my husband does cling to a fragment of dignity. Rather than humbly submit to the 'discipline' from these elders, he switched congregations. A JC followed anyways, and he's on restriction for pre-marital fornication. As one brother commented at the new hall, "Well, just promise not to do it any more."
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  purplesofa

  it would be the course of wisdom for that one to engage in the preaching work in a section of the territory where the problem is not widely known, at least for a while. It is good to keep in mind that the preaching work is a basic part of our service to God, and all who serve Jehovah should be sharing in it.?Matt. 24:14; 28:18-20.

  I was on private reproof. The congregation I was in had a major Airport in its territory. I was restricted from field service at the airport as conduct was to be exemplatory to go there.

  purps

  edited: the airport IS still there.
• 

  slimboyfat

  What it boils down to is the elders want to disfellowship him but they have not found a good excuse yet.

  I would suggest moving congregation if at all possible, and making sure he builds a good relationship with the new elders!

  Slim
• 

  blondie

  Don't you wonder where in the Bible is the basis for restrictions. If you believe that 1 Corinthians and 2 Corinthians which form the basis for their DF doctrine, then were does it say that this Christian was put on "restrictions"?

  (2 Corinthians 2:5-8) 5 Now if anyone has caused sadness, he has saddened, not me, but all of YOU to an extent?not to be too harsh in what I say. 6 This rebuke given by the majority is sufficient for such a man, 7 so that, on the contrary now, YOU should kindly forgive and comfort [him], that somehow such a man may not be swallowed up by his being overly sad. 8 Therefore I exhort YOU to confirm YOUR love for him.
• 

  Ade

  Hi,
  I can tell you why he feels like that, because he cant please God because he cant do these apparently fantastic works for the congregation , correct??, ask him and he will probably reply by saying "i cant contribute how can i be pleasing God"
  
  Well he can never please God by doing these things, As he is living under a law "Please God by doing this , this and this" if you dont do it your not pleasing God - this is the struggle for most witnesses who cant comment or are disfellowshipped or are restricted, they feel no longer acceptable to God because they arent doing these works.
  
  Comfort can only come from GOD , from the scriptures , and overcome the LAW they have placed your husband under
  
  
  ok some people here probably dont agree with me ( btw i dont care lol )
  Show your hubby these scriptures and see what he and you think .
  
  1 Corinthians 15:56 "the sting of death is sin; and the strength of the sin is law"
  The law your hubby is living under is making him feel rough and sinful, frustrated and worthless.
  15:57 "But thanks be to God which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ"
  ouch that stings eh?? he shouldnt feel like that becasue Jesus loves him and has died for us all and saved him from his sins already if he accepts Jesus , notice "Giveth the victory" were not waiting its already been given.
  Romans 4:15 "Because the law worketh WRATH: for where no law is, there is no transgression"
  they are being wrathful at your husband - according to this they are being wrathful because of LAW, strange because Jesus removed the law from us, your hubby will have to admit this.
  
  Here is reason for your husband to rejoice, he obviously wants to serve/Love God.Romans 4:2 "If in fact Abraham was justified by works then he has grounds for boasting, BUT NOT BEFORE GOD" This is in reference to Genesis 15:6 Abraham was credited as righteous this had NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY WORKS - check Genesis , he was credited as righteous because of his BELIEF IN GOD, Abraham had kept no law,rendered no service and performed no ritual.
  
  In fact read the rest of Romans and ask what works he does need to do be CLASSED AS RIGHTEOUS " indeed no works can make us righteous ".
  
  hope this helps
  God bless you all
  Ade