FHN: Thank You for this link and suggestion. I am thinking about visiting the church next weekend. It should be interesting and sort of fun.
I'll ask them if they might have a copy. It sounds like a good read.
episcopalian religion
by BlackSwan of Memphis 27 Replies latest jw friends
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jaguarbass
I once had a friend who was Epsicopalian. He told me it was Catholic light. He was gay.
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abbagail
There's a list at Koenig's International News http://www.watch.org/showart.php3?idx=64261&rtn=/ which lists in bold The Episcopal Church, along with several other major denominations, including the JWs, as those that teach Replacement Theology (ie, the church supposedly "replaced" Israel in scripture, which I no longer buy that. The "RT" belief says wherever you see God talking to Israel or wherever Israel is mentioned in scripture, that out of the blue (3rd century I believe) it no longer meant Israel but somehow changed to referring to the Church. I guess they forget the the Bible STILL SAYS Israel, lol. God's Word didn't change, they simply decided to change the meaning. Amazing.
Since the Episcopal Church is in bold on that list, they evidently do not believe all the promises God made to Abraham and his descendents applies to them anymore, but to the Church instead.
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Here's a few other articles I had from this summer, there was a big ruckus going on in not only the Episcopal Church, but also the Methodist and the Presbyterian... really shocking some of these things... /AG
Prophecy News Watch Update - July 12 & 18, 2006
Kade Hawkins
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Liberal Christianity is paying for its sins
The accelerating fragmentation of the strife-torn Episcopal Church USA, in which several parishes and even a few dioceses are opting out of the church, isn't simply about gay bishops, the blessing of same-sex unions or the election of a woman as presiding bishop. It also is about the meltdown of liberal Christianity.
Embraced by the leadership of all the mainline Protestant denominations, as well as large segments of American Catholicism, liberal Christianity has been hailed by its boosters for 40 years as the future of the Christian church.
Instead, as all but a few die-hards now admit, all the mainline churches and movements within churches that have blurred doctrine and softened moral precepts are demographically declining and, in the case of the Episcopal Church, disintegrating.
It is not entirely coincidental that at about the same time that Episcopalians, at their general convention in Columbus, Ohio, were thumbing their noses at a directive from the worldwide Anglican Communion that they "repent" of confirming the openly gay Bishop V. Gene Robinson of New Hampshire three years ago, the Presbyterian Church USA, at its general assembly in Birmingham, Ala., was turning itself into the laughingstock of the blogosphere by tacitly approving alternative designations for the supposedly sexist Christian Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Among the suggested names were "Mother, Child and Womb" and "Rock, Redeemer and Friend." Moved by the spirit of the Presbyterian revisionists, Beliefnet blogger Rod Dreher held a "Name That Trinity" contest. Entries included "Rock, Scissors and Paper" and "Larry, Curly and Moe."
Following the Episcopalian lead, the Presbyterians also voted to give local congregations the freedom to ordain openly cohabiting gay and lesbian ministers and endorsed the legalization of medical marijuana. (The latter may be a good idea, but it is hard to see how it falls under the theological purview of a Christian denomination.)
The Presbyterian Church USA is famous for its 1993 conference, cosponsored with the United Methodist Church, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and other mainline churches, in which participants "reimagined" God as "Our Maker Sophia" and held a feminist-inspired "milk and honey" ritual designed to replace traditional bread-and-wine Communion.
(That really IS SHOCKING. Sophia is one of the New Age goddesses. It looks like Jesus is OUT!/AG)
As if to one-up the Presbyterians in jettisoning age-old elements of Christian belief, the Episcopalians at Columbus overwhelmingly refused even to consider a resolution affirming that Jesus Christ is Lord. When a Christian church cannot bring itself to endorse a bedrock Christian theological statement repeatedly found in the New Testament, it is not a serious Christian church. It's a Church of What's Happening Now, conferring a feel-good imprimatur on whatever the liberal elements of secular society deem permissible or politically correct.
You want to have gay sex? Be a female bishop? Change God's name to Sophia? Go ahead. The just-elected Episcopal presiding bishop, Katharine Jefferts Schori, is a one-woman combination of all these things, having voted for Robinson, blessed same-sex couples in her Nevada diocese, prayed to a female Jesus at the Columbus convention and invited former Newark, N.J., bishop John Shelby Spong, famous for denying Christ's divinity, to address her priests.
When a church doesn't take itself seriously, neither do its members. It is hard to believe that as recently as 1960, members of mainline churches ? Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Methodists, Lutherans and the like ? accounted for 40% of all American Protestants. Today, it's more like 12% (17 million out of 135 million). Some of the precipitous decline is due to lower birthrates among the generally blue-state mainliners, but it also is clear that millions of mainline adherents (and especially their children) have simply walked out of the pews never to return. According to the Hartford Institute for Religious Research, in 1965, there were 3.4 million Episcopalians; now, there are 2.3 million. The number of Presbyterians fell from 4.3 million in 1965 to 2.5 million today. Compare that with 16 million members reported by the Southern Baptists.
When your religion says "whatever" on doctrinal matters, regards Jesus as just another wise teacher, refuses on principle to evangelize and lets you do pretty much what you want, it's a short step to deciding that one of the things you don't want to do is get up on Sunday morning and go to church.
It doesn't help matters that the mainline churches were pioneers in ordaining women to the clergy, to the point that 25% of all Episcopal priests these days are female, as are 29% of all Presbyterian pastors, according to the two churches. A causal connection between a critical mass of female clergy and a mass exodus from the churches, especially among men, would be difficult to establish, but is it entirely a coincidence? Sociologist Rodney Stark ("The Rise of Christianity") and historian Philip Jenkins ("The Next Christendom") contend that the more demands, ethical and doctrinal, that a faith places upon its adherents, the deeper the adherents' commitment to that faith. Evangelical and Pentecostal churches, which preach biblical morality, have no trouble saying that Jesus is Lord, and they generally eschew women's ordination. The churches are growing robustly, both in the United States and around the world.
Despite the fact that median Sunday attendance at Episcopal churches is 80 worshipers, the Episcopal Church, as a whole, is financially equipped to carry on for some time, thanks to its inventory of vintage real estate and huge endowments left over from the days (no more!) when it was the Republican Party at prayer. Furthermore, it has offset some of its demographic losses by attracting disaffected liberal Catholics and gays and lesbians. The less endowed Presbyterian Church USA is in deeper trouble. Just before its general assembly in Birmingham, it announced that it would eliminate 75 jobs to meet a $9.15-million budget cut at its headquarters, the third such round of job cuts in four years.
The Episcopalians have smells, bells, needlework cushions and colorfully garbed, Catholic-looking bishops as draws, but who, under the present circumstances, wants to become a Presbyterian?
Still, it must be galling to Episcopal liberals that many of the parishes and dioceses (including that of San Joaquin, Calif.) that want to pull out of the Episcopal Church USA are growing instead of shrinking, have live people in the pews who pay for the upkeep of their churches and don't have to rely on dead rich people. The 21-year-old Christ Church Episcopal in Plano, Texas, for example, is one of the largest Episcopal churches in the country. Its 2,200 worshipers on any given Sunday are about equal to the number of active Episcopalians in Jefferts Schori's entire Nevada diocese.
It's no surprise that Christ Church, like the other dissident parishes, preaches a very conservative theology. Its break from the national church came after Rowan Williams, archbishop of Canterbury and head of the Anglican Communion, proposed a two-tier membership in which the Episcopal Church USA and other churches that decline to adhere to traditional biblical standards would have "associate" status in the communion. The dissidents hope to retain full communication with Canterbury by establishing oversight by non-U.S. Anglican bishops.
As for the rest of the Episcopalians, the phrase "deck chairs on the Titanic" comes to mind. A number of liberal Episcopal websites are devoted these days to dissing Peter Akinola, outspoken primate of the Anglican diocese of Nigeria, who, like the vast majority of the world's 77 million Anglicans reported by the Anglican Communion, believes that "homosexual practice" is "incompatible with Scripture" (those words are from the communion's 1998 resolution at the Lambeth conference of bishops). Akinola might have the numbers on his side, but he is now the Voldemort ? no, make that the Karl Rove ? of the U.S. Episcopal world. Other liberals fume over a feeble last-minute resolution in Columbus calling for "restraint" in consecrating bishops whose lifestyle might offend "the wider church" ? a resolution immediately ignored when a second openly cohabitating gay man was nominated for bishop of Newark.
So this is the liberal Christianity that was supposed to be the Christianity of the future: disarray, schism, rapidly falling numbers of adherents, a collapse of Christology and national meetings that rival those of the Modern Language Assn. for their potential for cheap laughs. And they keep telling the Catholic Church that it had better get with the liberal program ? ordain women, bless gay unions and so forth ? or die. Sure.
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abbagail
Episcopal news from the Prophecy News Watch newsletter of 6/21/06... 4 of these articles are about the Episcopal Church... this was still during the time the big shakeup/revelations were going on in the news about these churches.. /AG
Prophecy News Watch Update - June 21, 2006
Kade Hawkins
Prophecy News Watch
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Apostate Christianity in this issue:
* New US Episcopal church leader says homosexuality no sin
* Presbyterians Think Of Changing 'Father, Son, Holy Spirit'
* Episcopal Convention Condemns Bible as 'Anti-Jewish'
* Evangelism Low On Priority List For Episcopalians
* Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ as the only way to be saved
Apostate Christianity
New US church leader says homosexuality no sin
Newly elected leader of the U.S. Episcopal Church Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori said on Monday she believed homosexuality was no sin and homosexuals were created by God to love people of the same gender.
Jefferts Schori, bishop of the Diocese of Nevada, was elected on Sunday as the first woman leader of the 2.3 million-member Episcopal Church. the U.S. branch of the worldwide Anglican Communion. She will formally take office later this year.
Interviewed on CNN, Jefferts Schori was asked if it was a sin to be homosexual.
"I don't believe so. I believe that God creates us with different gifts. Each one of us comes into this world with a different collection of things that challenge us and things that give us joy and allow us to bless the world around us," she said.
"Some people come into this world with affections ordered toward other people of the same gender and some people come into this world with affections directed at people of the other gender."
Jefferts Schori's election seemed certain to exacerbate splits within a Episcopal Church that is already deeply divided over homosexuality with several dioceses and parishes threatening to break away.
It could also widen divisions with other Anglican communities, including the Church of England, which do not allow women bishops.
In the worldwide Anglican church women are bishops only in Canada, the United States and New Zealand. The Robinson issue has been particularly criticized in Africa where the church has a growing membership and where homosexuality is often taboo.
Jefferts Schori, who was raised a Roman Catholic and graduated in marine biology with a doctorate specialization in squids and oysters, supported the consecration of Gene Robinson of New Hampshire, the first openly gay bishop in more than 450 years of Anglican history.
Asked how she reconciled her position on homosexuality with specific passages in the Bible declaring sexual relations between men an abomination, Jefferts Schori said the Bible was written in a very different historical context by people asking different questions.
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Presbyterians Think Of Changing 'Father, Son, Holy Spirit'
The divine Trinity -- "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" -- could also be known as "Mother, Child and Womb" or "Rock, Redeemer, Friend" at some Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) services under an action Monday by the church's national assembly.
Delegates to the meeting voted to "receive" a policy paper on gender-inclusive language for the Trinity, a step short of approving it. That means church officials can propose experimental liturgies with alternative phrasings for the Trinity, but congregations won't be required to use them.
"This does not alter the church's theological position, but provides an educational resource to enhance the spiritual life of our membership," legislative committee chair Nancy Olthoff, an Iowa laywoman, said during Monday's debate on the Trinity.
The assembly narrowly defeated a conservative bid to refer the paper back for further study.
A panel that worked on the issue since 2000 said the classical language for the Trinity should still be used, but added that Presbyterians also should seek "fresh ways to speak of the mystery of the triune God" to "expand the church's vocabulary of praise and wonder."
One reason is that language limited to the Father and Son "has been used to support the idea that God is male and that men are superior to women," the panel said.
Conservatives responded that the church should stick close to the way God is named in the Bible and noted that Jesus' most famous prayer was addressed to "Our Father."
Besides "Mother, Child and Womb" and "Rock, Redeemer, Friend," proposed Trinity options drawn from biblical material include:
- "Lover, Beloved, Love"
- "Creator, Savior, Sanctifier"
- "King of Glory, Prince of Peace, Spirit of Love."
Early in Monday's business session, the Presbyterian assembly sang a revised version of a familiar doxology, "Praise God from whom all blessings flow" that avoided male nouns and pronouns for God.
Youth delegate Dorothy Hill, a student at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in Massachusetts, was uncomfortable with changing the Trinity wording. She said the paper "suggests viewpoints that seem to be in tension with what our church has always held to be true about our Trinitarian God."
Hill reminded delegates that the Ten Commandments say "the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name."
The Rev. Deborah Funke of Montana warned that the paper would be "theologically confusing and divisive" at a time when the denomination of 2.3 million members faces other troublesome issues.
On Tuesday, the assembly will vote on a proposal to give local congregations and regional "presbyteries" some leeway on ordaining clergy and lay officers living in gay relationships.
Ten conservative Presbyterian groups have warned jointly that approval of what they call "local option" would "promote schism by permitting the disregard of clear standards of Scripture."
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Episcopal Convention Condemns Bible as 'Anti-Jewish'
The 75th General Convention of the Episcopal Church passed a resolution this week essentially condemning the Bible as an "anti-Jewish" document. Not only does the resolution aim to address perceptions of anti-Jewish prejudice in the Bible and Episcopal liturgy, but it suggests that such prejudice is actually "expressed in...Christian Scriptures and liturgical texts."
Originated in the Committee on Prayer Book, Liturgy and Music, Resolution C001 directs the Standing Commission on Liturgy and Music to "collect and develop materials to assist members of the Church to address anti-Jewish prejudice expressed in and stirred by portions of Christian scriptures and liturgical texts, with suggestions for preaching, congregational education, and lectionary use, and to report to the 76th General Convention."
Both houses of the Episcopal Church Convention passed the resolution, including a 68 percent approval in the House of Deputies.
The Rev. Ruth A Meyers of the Diocese of Chicago, Secretary of the Committee on Prayer Book, Liturgy and Music, explained to the House of Deputies why her committee had expanded the wording in the language to include not only prejudice in "liturgical texts," but also in "Christian scriptures."
"We did have a question about whether Scripture itself uses anti-Jewish prejudice," Meyers said. Referring specifically to the Gospel account of the crucifixion, she added, "That scriptural text...has in fact stirred anti-Jewish prejudice and resulted in significant violence toward Jewish people."
Canon Kendall Harmon, Diocese of South Carolina, Deputy on the Education Committee, proposed an amendment on the floor of the House of Deputies to restore the original language of Resolution C001 without condemning "Christian scriptures."
A deputy from Massachusetts argued in favor of Harmon's amendment, "I believe it is so important to deal with the question of the liturgical text and those that may promote or maintain anti-Jewish prejudice, and I am not prepared to deal with the larger question of Scripture."
The Rev. Adam Trambley, rector of Trinity Memorial Episcopal Church and a deputy from Northwestern Pennsylvania, declared, "There is an issue with perceived anti-Semitism in the New Testament...The amendment seems to be more interested in separating the liturgical texts we use from the Scriptural texts."
The amendment failed by a vote of 424-387.
Virtue Online interviewed the Very Rev. Dr. Peter Cook of the Diocese of Western Louisiana, a member of the Committee on Prayer Book, Liturgy and Music, following the final vote of the House of Deputies to concur with the House of Bishops. Cook attempted to dissuade his committee from amending Resolution C001, but his vote was far outweighed.
Resolution C001 "in effect smuggled in a critique of the Scriptural text instead of the liturgical text," said Cook.
Underlying it all was a terribly flawed understanding of God's Word, Cook suggested.
"I think it reaffirms the belief amongst many that our culture is entitled to critique the Scriptures." Cook said that the liberal view of Scripture had triumphed in the passage of the resolution, based on the belief that the Bible is "a document produced in a certain time with limitations, and because of that it may not be relevant for all cultures at all times."
The orthodox view, according to Cook, is that "the Scriptures were written at a particular place in a particular culture, and that they are relevant to all cultures."
But "if Scriptures were only communicated by men, which means that they were man's best efforts to interpret what God is saying," they will inevitably miss the mark, Cook concluded.
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Evangelism Low On Priority List For Episcopalians
The Episcopal Convention this week passed a resolution of "mission priorities" for the church's budget, identifying "Justice and Peace" as the top priority. A proposed amendment in the House of Deputies to make evangelism the first priority was defeated.
According to a recent Gallup survey, Episcopalians are the least likely Christians in America to attend church every week. As the average Sunday attendance of the Episcopal Church continues its rapid decline, and as the average age of Episcopalians continues its increase, both houses of the Episcopal Convention determined that "Justice and Peace" was the more important activity of the church.
"Justice and Peace" gives special attention to the eight Millennium Development Goals of the United Nations, which include the eradication of "extreme poverty and hunger," "universal primary education," the promotion of gender equality and the empowerment of women, and the reduction of child mortality.
Even as the Episcopal Church aims to reduce child mortality, it continues to endorse the practice of abortion. One proposed liturgy in the Committee on Prayer Book, Liturgy and Music includes a prayer entitled "Following the Termination of Pregnancy."
And due in part to the failure of Episcopalians to raise children or to keep them in the church, the second priority of the Episcopal Church is "Young Adults, Youth and Children." The description of the second priority is, "Reaching out to young adults, youth and children through intentional inclusion and full incorporation in the thinking, work, worship and structure of the Church.
The Rev. Kevin Martin, a deputy from Texas and Executive Director of Vital Church Ministries, spoke to the House of Deputies on Thursday, criticizing the Episcopal Church for its failure to prioritize evangelism. "I can assure you that it is not easy to be an advocate for evangelism in the Episcopal Church," he said, recalling the power of the Gospel in his own conversion and ministry. "I want this church to make evangelism a passion and a priority."
"While we continue our steady decline as a denomination," a growing sense of spirituality and a longing for truth takes place in the nation, according to Martin. Yet "the only place we don't find it is in the church."
Not only is the church unable to attract and retain young people, its identity is firmly attached to an older generation of Americans, Martin suggested. "The average age of an Episcopalian is 59 plus years, but even more tragically the average age of a graduating seminarian is 48 plus years of age...Without medicine and technology there will be no Episcopal Church by the year 2020."
After his speech to the House of Deputies, Martin spoke with Virtue Online. "The Episcopal Church preoccupies itself with a lot of things that are not central to the Gospel, and it has not demonstrated a wholehearted commitment to evangelism."
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Episcopalians refuse affirmation of Christ as the only way to be saved
The House of Deputies of the 75th General Convention of the Episcopal Church today overwhelmingly refused to even consider a resolution that affirmed Jesus Christ as the "only name by which any person may be saved."
"This type of language was used in 1920s and 1930s to alienate the type of people who were executed. It was called the Holocaust. I understand the intent, but I ask you to allow the discharge to stay," said the Rev. Eugene C. McDowell, a graduate of Yale Divinity School and Canon Theologian for the Diocese of North Carolina.
The convention's Committee on Evangelism first heard the resolution and discharged it to the chagrin of that committee's chairman, the Rev. Colenzo Hubbard, a noted evangelist and director of Emmanuel Episcopal Center in the Diocese of West Tennessee. The Rev. Hubbard motioned to lift the resolution from the discharge list, but after heated debate, more than seven tenths of the House of Deputies rejected the motion.
Drafted by the Rev. Guido Verbeck, rector of St. Paul's Episcopal Church in the Diocese of Western Louisiana, Resolution D058 declared the Episcopal Church's belief in an "unchanging commitment to Jesus Christ as the Son of God, the only name by which any person may be saved," and it acknowledged evangelism as "the solemn responsibility placed upon us to share Christ with all persons when we hear His words, 'I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No-one comes to the Father except through me' (John 14:6)."
The resolution further affirmed "the substitutionary essence of the Cross and the manifestation of God's unlimited and unending love for all persons," while calling on the Episcopal Church to renew its Scripture-based witness to "all persons."
The Rev. Hubbard said that he voted for the resolution in committee because of his simple responsibility as a Christian. Hubbard quoted several verses of Scripture to demonstrate his conviction. "I do agree that Jesus Christ is both the substitutionary essence of the Cross and the manifestation of God's unlimited and unending love for all persons," said Hubbard, once a star on the University of Alabama football team.
Echoing Hubbard, Canon Dr. Kendall Harmon, a leading conservative in the denomination, argued for a "reaffirmation of what some have called 'the scandal of particularity' of the Cross."
Judy Mayo from the Diocese of Fort Worth also opposed discharge. "My friends, this is a church convention, and this is the very essence of our faith. This may be the most important thing we deal with at this entire convention...Surely we can say together that Jesus Christ is Lord. And if we can't, we have no reason to be here."
But liberals outnumbered Hubbard, Harman, and Mayo by far.
To acknowledge the exclusive Lordship of Christ in a resolution was too much for the majority of deputies at the 75th General Convention of the Episcopal Church.
The message was clear to the Rev. Donald Perschall, rector of St. John's Episcopal Church in Centralia, Illinois, as he left the convention hall Tuesday, shocked by the events of the day. "On top of leaving the Anglican Communion, we've decided to leave Jesus Christ behind as well."
It was not a surprise vote though; the liberalization of the Episcopal Church predates 1982. Episcopalians have made it clear by their rejection of traditional marriage and other recent innovations that a new set of principles now dominate the Episcopal Church. Though the trend toward liberalism in the Episcopal Church has been ongoing for decades, it was in 2003 that the consecration of a homosexual as Bishop of New Hampshire crystallized the departure of the denomination from its bearings in classical Anglicanism.
Dr. Michael Howell of the Diocese of Southwestern Florida and a member of the Special Committee that deliberated the Convention's response to the global Anglican Communion's Windsor Report, told VirtueOnline that the discharge of Resolution D058 is "very much related" to the failure of Resolution A161 moments earlier.
A161 would place a moratorium on the consecration of homosexual bishops and the blessing of homosexual unions in a minimal effort to comply with the Windsor Report. It was soundly defeated on the floor of the House of Deputies Tuesday.
"If we cannot affirm the unique salvific power of Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, we are no longer a Christian church." Switching to a sarcastic tone, Howell declared, "We have no need for a Creed. Why do again what we did in the past?"
"This clearly shows that we are of a mind that does not affirm Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. And we should not be surprised that our church is dying spiritually," said Howell.
The final tally on the electronic vote was 70.5 percent for discharge (675 votes) and just 29.5 (242 votes) to consider the resolution affirming Jesus Christ as Lord.
FULL TEXT:
RESOLUTION D058 SALVATION THROUGH CHRIST ALONE
Discharged in committee.
Discharge upheld by House of Deputies, 75th General Convention.
Resolved, the House of _____ concurring, That the 75th General Convention of the Episcopal Church declares its unchanging commitment to Jesus Christ as the Son of God, the only name by which any person may be saved (Article XVIII); and be it further Resolved, That we acknowledge the solemn responsibility placed upon us to share Christ with all persons when we hear His words, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
No-one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6); and be it further Resolved, That we affirm that in Christ there is both the substitutionary essence of the Cross and the manifestation of God's unlimited and unending love for all persons; and be it further Resolved, That we renew our dedication to be faithful witnesses to all persons of the saving love of God perfectly and uniquely revealed in Jesus and upheld by the full testimony of Holy Scripture.
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Here's a brief summary of an article at CuttingEdge.org about the Episcopalian church from this summer, June 2006:
* "The Greatest Single Instance of Church Apostasy of All Time!?"
The Episcopalian Church committed two of the largest Apostasies imaginable during their annual national conference. When the Apostle Paul said that Antichrist could not arise unless and until the prophesied great Apostasy had occurred (2 Thess 2:3), what he was really saying was that Church leaders committing the Apostasy were literally opening the door to the appearance of Antichrist; this Man of Sin has always been blocked by this door, guarded by the true Christian Faith.
Biblical Definition of Apostasy: The predicted great falling away of those who have professed to be Christians -- Denying key Christian doctrines.
You will discover, to your immense shock, that the Episcopalian Church has now adopted the key doctrine of Antichrist and is thus aiding in the opening of that door. <http://cuttingedge.org/news/n2140.cfm>
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BlackSwan of Memphis
Jaguar: Yeah, I've heard that the Episcopal Church is pretty liberal when it comes to the gay/lesbian community. Which is to me, good. I just don't think any human has the right to judge in that manner. Abbagail: WOW! Thank you for all the information. This is going to take me a while to read tonight. I've got a lot of reading to catch up on. Lol, I spent 2 weeks reading the Harry Potter series, now I've got to catch up on my "serious" reading. This looks like an interesting read. Thanks!!
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FlyingHighNow
Black Swan, this is why we chose St. Mark's:
Newcomers
We are delighted to welcome newcomers to St. Mark?s Episcopal Church!
We are delighted to welcome newcomers to St. Mark's Episcopal Church!
Many of our parishioners came to St. Mark's as young people or adults. Some were already Episcopalians; some were even new to Christianity. From wherever you have come, we welcome you on your spiritual journey.
Our parish includes young and old; wealthy and those of modest means; black, brown, and white; gay and straight; married and single; and those with children or not. Our parishioners come from the city, the suburbs, and more rural areas of West Michigan. We celebrate and embrace the diversity of St. Mark's parish. Everyone is welcome!Abbagail, Jesus said that you would know his followers by the love they have among themselves. This kind of love, outreach and spirituality is abundantly obvious at St. Mark's. Our Interim Priest is the most amazing woman I have met in my life. We all love her and are very sad that she is leaving us soon. Mother Val is like the kindest mother looking out for everyone in her flock in a tender way. She happens to be gay. You wouldn't know if she didn't tell you though. We have a few gay couples in our church and you'd not know if they didn't tell you. They are all very kind and very spiritual people, very normal. Small minded, hard hearted Christians do far more harm and heartache in this world than gay people do. Mother Val would tell you that we are all on our own unique spiritual journeys and God appreciates all efforts to reach out to him and love him. Jesus never mentioned homosexuality. If it was so extremely important, I'm sure he would have said something about it at least once. It's not for any man or woman to say a person who is gay, that their love and sincere reach for God is not welcomed by him. I'd rather be in a church where everyone is truly welcome than one who uses fear or shame to control its members.
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abbagail
You're Welcome Black Swan! ;-)
It was fresh on my mind because there was a whole "lump" of news articles about a month ago that came out about the same time re: not only the Episcopalians, but also the Methodists, and the Lutherans all jumping on the bandwagon to change, or at least alter, some of their beliefs, etc.
Hope it helps re: the decision-making process.
Best regards/AG -
FlyingHighNow
Black Swan, I don't think it's so much that the Episcopal, Lutheren and Presbyterian Churches are changing their beliefs, it's that they are being honest and open about what's been going on for many years. That is that Christians realize that with Christ it's more about love, being non-judgmental and following in Christ's footsteps. He didn't make it a point to mention or exclude homosexuals from God's love and care. The Episcopal Church is not rigid or literal about all scripture. If we were, we'd still be practicing polygamy and wives would be property to their husbands. The Episcopal Church uses scripture, reason and tradition, their "three legged stool", when approaching scripture. They don't discount science either.
It's to be noted that celibacy in the Catholic priesthood was based, not on scripture, but on economic issues. I believe it's possible the ban on homosexuality had more to do with fathers, sons and inheritence than it did with anything else.