The Episcopalian Church is a Protestant Church just like the Baptists or Lutherine Churches I just dont understand why people associate it with the Catholic Church.
episcopalian religion
by BlackSwan of Memphis 27 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
badboy
THEY BELONG TO THE ANGLICAN CHURCH.
-
LittleToe
The word "Episcopal" refers to a style of church government, in comparison to say "Presbyterian" (see links).
In Britain the Anglican churches (e.g. Church of England - not Church of Scotland, which is Presbyterian) fall into this category and while they are deemed "Protestant" denominations they have much of the trappings and appearance of Roman Catholicism, including Bishops. Catholicism also uses the Episcopal style of church government, so ostensibly differs only doctrinally.
I've been to a few services and enjoyed them. Too much standing and kneeling and responsive liturgy (where the congregation reads stuff back at the Celebrant) for my general taste, though. But each to their own. It's all good
The JWs are a bit of a hybrid of both, for all their denial of a Clergy.
-
BlackSwan of Memphis
My ex-girlfriend, who converted from the Roman Catholic Church to the Episcopal Church, liked to call us "Catholic Lite" because our services were similar to the Roman but without all the restrictions. For example Communion is not exclusive, but open to all baptised Christians. Divorced persons are not excommunicated. Both men and women can serve as priests and bishops, something you will never see in the JWs.
This is interesting. I have wondered about the issue of divorce within the Church. I suppose after seeing what so many people go through in the jw's with divorce I just sort of figure whatever God is up there (in us, around us etc) I just can't believe they would not look at the circumstances and say sure, receive communion.
Catholicism also uses the Episcopal style of church government, so ostensibly differs only doctrinally.
Where at do they differ, other then what has been mentioned? Doubleedge said that they've adopted more of a whatever attitude. That can be good and that can not so good. I'm curious what they teach in regards to the Bible. They must not have the same literal interpretation as the evangelicals. So I wonder what they believe. Hm, a bible study with them could yield interesting results.
I've been to a few services and enjoyed them. Too much standing and kneeling and responsive liturgy ( where the congregation reads stuff back at the Celebrant ) for my general taste, though. But each to their own.
Sounds like the average Catholic Mass. I have to say, they are quite beautiful. Much different then the jws.
The JWs are a bit of a hybrid of both, for all their denial of a Clergy.
Hmph, yeah I agree. I have thought it interesting that the jw's denounce the Church so badly, when the reality is they are so much like them in form.
-
LittleToe
It's confusing, but it needn't be, when you strip it down to its essentials.
The problem most of us faced when leaving the WTS was the variety of religion out there, especially among Christian denominations. Let's just take this latter example, since it's the nearest (and furthest) from what we were raised with.
Before I concentrate on varous features I need to qualify that some of the words used on each side of the Atlantic Ocean are unhelpful. The meanings behind the words [fundamental / evangelical / born-again / etc. / etc. / etc.] have their own connotations that everyone continues to fall foul of. While I would love everyone to hold judgement until they see the fruits of an individual/denomination, I know that the reality is that they will likely be triggered and there's not a darned thing I can do about it.
There's style of Church government, or how its organised and ruled. While we often have a kneejerk reaction to anything that smacks of this we have to remember that if any large number of people are going to sing from a vaguely similar hymn sheet there needs to be some level of organisation involved. Even agreeing what time to meet involves some kind of decision-making, hence "government".
How about the singing? Will they sing Psalms or hymns; new or old; chant, plainsong, or melody; taped music, live band, organ, piano or single unaccompanied precentor?
Will the clergy wear a dog-collar, shirt and tie, or just jeans? Will the laity dress formally or casually? Will women be expected to wear a skirt, or even a hat?
Then there's the Order of Worship, which is more to do with the outward methods of worship. Do they use liturgy, where most of it is read? Is there some responsive stuff, for the congregation to read, such as the Lord's Prayer or the Apostle's creed? Is there lots of singing and then a long sermon, or on the other extreme are there so many interludes that you lose the thread od what's going on? Do they permit use of the Charismata, such as speaking in tongues?
Then there are the ordinances of communion (memorial) and baptism to consider. Should infants be baptised; what about confirmation; dunk or sprinkle; what formula of words? Alcoholic wine or grape juice? An open communion table, or closed to just the local congregation of professing Christians (like the anointed)? The confessional is a hot subject, given that this was one of the issues over which the Protestant Reformation was founded, causing the first major schizm from the Catholic church since the Eastern Orthodox split.
Finally there are the actual doctrines of the church, and these can be as personal as the Minister or even individual laity, especially regards eschatology or Sola Scriptura. You'll find it hard to discover a church that doesn't place some importance on knowing Christ, however, or accepting the prevalent biblical view that he is Divine.
I've placed these features of church in what I feel are reverse order of importance. Does it matter? IMHO if someone professes that they love Christ (the person, not just a body of interpreted teaching) then it's good enough for me, to call them a Christian. Accompanying that with the two laws pretty much does it, for me, as far as the necessities of religion. All else is window dressing. Of course I'm not averse to a little window dressing but I tend to take my religion, like most things in my life, a little spartan. Though what do you expect from someone from the heartland of Reformed Presbyterianism?
Basically if you want to explore then suck it and see, but expect a huge amount of variety even in adjacent congregations of the same denomination. And guess what? You don't have to agree with everything preached to enjoy fellowship and discuss issues and doctrine. Nor do you have to become a member, just because you attend one or a hundred or a thousand services...
Just my 2p.
-
BlackSwan of Memphis
Thank you for the rundown LT.
I suppose I'm not really following the whole jesus/divine/bible thing anymore. I do a lot of work on the computer and in the process have too much time to think and listen to various people mp3 wise and in the end, I am probably most interested in finding a place to talk about the many different varieties of religion and thought without having to hear that Jesus is the only way. I have wayyyyy too much doubt in the Bible as the word of God at this point, if any faith at all really, to really want to spend time going back and forth on bible teaching.
One of the things that peaked my interest in this episcopalian church was the liberalism that it holds for members. Not the way they interpret the bible.
You are right that one would find it difficult to find a church that does not hold jesus as divine or whatnot. The only one I found was the UU church. It has interesting sermons and much to offer people in terms of special interest groups, but I found that the members were either losing interest in what they were doing or were almost a little too bitter, for some reason or another, one possibility being the $$$.
So far I find that I am feeling my most spiritual when I am outdoors or just taking it all in and sorting through the tons of information that filter in day after day.
I still think I might check out the Episcoplian church that is right up the road. Hm, ya never know what ya might learn and be affected by. Couldn't hurt.
thx LT
-
LittleToe
Separating [ Religion / Bible / Spirituality / God / Jesus / Good works / Tolerance / Loving People / Enjoyment of Nature / Etc ] into separate compartments can help. It's not an all or nothing show, which I guess was the point of all the previous spiel. Variety is the spice of life...
-
BlackSwan of Memphis
It's not an all or nothing show, which I guess was the point of all the previous spiel. Variety is the spice of life...
Well, one of the things I learned over time was that religion and sprituality aren't the same thing. I see Jesus in a way as a teacher. I personally enjoy his teachings, although I find the concept of a saviour hard to digest.
I think your point about Sola Scriptura is interesting. And worth it's own thread as I would be very much interested in knowing what others think on the matter.
Whether I "should" or not, I still look back at various portions of the Bible and find meanings that give me a different perspective on myself or the world. And I know if I research it to death, I still will attach to it, the meaning that I discovered.
I think of religion and spirituality as a buffet of sorts. Some Jesus and some Buddha and it doesn't hurt to throw in a dollop of Chaos.
-
LittleToe
I think of religion and spirituality as a buffet of sorts. Some Jesus and some Buddha and it doesn't hurt to throw in a dollop of Chaos.
Why do you think I align myself with unorthodox Christianity?
-
FlyingHighNow
I hope that I am not the only Episcopalian who posts here.
You aren't. I was raised and baptized in the church and was just confirmed this year.
Barry: The Church of England has its roots in the Catholic Church. The Episcopal Church of the Americas was the Church of England when the USA was colonized by England. During the revolution, the American Church stopped calling it self the Church of England. The Episcopalian liturgy and Eucharist is actually very catholic in form. According to my former Catholic friends who are now Episcopalian, Vatican II watered down the Catholic liturgy until it's much more plain than most Episcopal Church services. Our services at St. Mark's are very beautiful and inspiring. Very spiritual.
Black Swan: The Episcopal Church is very different from fundamentalist churches. Here's a book that we went through for my confirmation classes. It's explains everything you want to know in a humorous and easy to read way. I found it deightful. You can order it or you could ask the local church to get you one. They may even have one. And don't worry, they aren't evangelical and won't twist your arm. My parents did a lot wrong when they were raising me, but they did religion right. The only mistake mom made made was to stop taking us to church after her divorce. The Episcopal Church is a much healthier place to raise children. My grandson's formerly Catholic godmother says the Episcopal Church is like Catholic without all the baggage.