by badboy 25 Replies latest jw friends

  • What-A-Coincidence

    jehovah just made sure that it happened...gosh

  • Arthur
    there was no earth-wide flood. the entire flood story was passed down from generation to generation in memory of some ancient, traumatic regional flooding.

    One of the best researched books that I have ever read on this topic is: "Secret Origins of the Bible". The writer; Tim Callahan presents an enormous amount of evidence that points to the various mythological sources of the Genesis flood story.

  • gaiagirl

    Another great book explaining how a regional flood in the body of water now known as the Black Sea served as the source of the Deluge legend, is "Noahs Flood" by William Ryan and Walter Pitman. Many threads of evidence all pointing the same event. Highly recommended!

  • Mary

    Surprisingly, I even know a few Witnesses who do not believe there was an earth wide flood, but rather a local flood. Think about it: If you take the stories of Genesis at face value, The Flood happened about 1,000 years after Adam and Eve screwed up. There certainly wasn't enough time for mankind to have multiplied to the point where they were living on various continents all over the earth. The population still would have been mostly limited to the areas of North Africa, Turkey, Greece and around the Mediterranean Sea. Therefore, there would have been no point to God destroyed the entire physical earth by means of a global flood, as no one was living in the Americas, Middle and South Africa, Asia, etc. Talk about overkill (no pun intended). Plus, there is no geological evidence for a global flood that happened 5,000 years ago, although apparently, there is some evidence for a local flood in that region that may have happened between 7,500 - 10,000 years ago. The jury is still out on that.

    As for the post-vegetation problem, I agree with jaguarbass: Even when there are local floods, much vegetation survives. However, if there was a Global Flood, fresh water would have mixed with salt water and no vegetation could have survived.....but maybe Noah's wife was the original Martha Stewart and she looked after all the seeds and plants on board.

  • skyking

    Seeds soften from being wet that is who most germinate. So seed will withstand long periods of being wet. But once they get to this point they have to grow and if they can't they die. So yes seed can last through a flood but not one that lasted as long as the Noah's flood. All the seeds, all vegetation would be gone from the earth. Think about tidal forces from the moon this would of left a barren lifeless earth with no vegetation, no trees, no grass, not anything left rooted, the tidal action would of been like a huge scraper leaving nothing rooted in the watery deeps.

  • Terry

    Josephus, Ussher, and other scholars disagree slightly on some of their dates. But most agree that a straightforward reading of the Bible indicates the Deluge must have taken place in the third millennium before the birth of Jesus Christ ? possibly between 2500 BC and 2300 BC.

    The placing of a catastrophic global flood in the year 2304 BC means that all civilizations discovered by archaeology must fit into the last 4,285 years.

    Old Testament 10,000 BCE - 800 BCE

    10,000 - 8000

    The Natufian culture appeared in modern-day Israel - some of the first known human settlements in the world.



    began in Near East as people started using "digging sticks" to plant the seeds of wild grasses which would eventually become the domesticated wheat we know today.

    c. 6750


    are domesticated in modern Iraq.

    6500 - 6300


    was invented by Sumerians who lived in the Tigris-Euphrates river basin.

    c. 6000


    were domesticated in southern Asia.


    Year of Creation, as calculated in seventh-century CE Constantinople and used by

    Eastern Orthodox Church until 18th century CE.


    Year of Creation, as calculated by Syrian Christians.

    c. 5000

    The earliest known cities were founded as increasing numbers of people began to gather in villages scattered around the Fertile Crescent.

    4004 (October 23)

    Date of Creation, as calculated by Irish theologian

    James Ussher in 1650 CE.

    c. 4000


    were domesticated.

    c. 4000

    Sumerians in southern Mesopotamia developed the boat for water transportation.


    Year of Creation, as calculated by the

    Hebrews and used since the 15th century CE.

    3641 (February 10)

    Date of Creation, as calculated by the Mayans.


    Sumerian society developed in the Tigris-Euphrates river basin. The Sumerians made use of many agricultural advances, such as domestic animals to pull plows, irrigated desert, drained marshlands and more in order to create a large, cosmopolitan civilization. The increased output of food allowed for the further development of a "leisure class" that did not have to work for food, allowing them to become priests, artists, merchants, scholars, etc. The Sumerians also developed oar-powered ships, animal-drawn wheeled chariots and other, similar vehicles, bronze objects, and the written cuneiform alphabet.

    c. 3400

    Early form of hieroglyphic writing started being used in Egypt.


    The first Egyptian Dynasty united the southern and northern kingdoms under the rule of Menes, founder of the city of Memphis which would become the center of his authority.

    c. 3000

    First human settlements were established on the site of modern-day Athens.

    c. 3000


    was built in England.

    c. 2980- 2950

    Life of Imhotep, famed Egyptian physician. He was worshiped as a medical demigod in ancient Egypt because of his work on medical methods for treating diseases rather than simply religious methods. Imhotep was also responsible for the construction of the pyramid of Zoser (the Step Pyramid at Sakkara), the first large stone structure in the entire world.

    c. 2800

    Egyptians began wearing wedding rings, believing that the circular bands symbolized eternity.


    The Great Pyramid of Cheops at Giza was constructed by Cheops, son of the founder of Egypt's 4th Dynasty, Snefru.

    c. 2600

    The first recorded seagoing voyage carried Egyptian sailors to Phoenicia in search of cedarwood.

    c. 2600

    Chinese began cultivation of silkworms.


    Great Sphinx

    at Giza, a 189-foot long monument to King Khafra (Khafre), the third king of the 4th Dynasty, was carved.


    Sumerian cuneiform script was simplified from an earlier version consisting of thousands of ideograms.


    Sargon I founded the Akkadian empire, which ruled Mesopotamia for the next couple of centuries.


    The Great Flood occurred (according to fundamentalist sources).


    The Tower of Babel was constructed (according to fundamentalist sources).


    Indo-European invaders

    , speaking the earliest forms of Greek, entered the mainland of Greece, and the Mycenaean Civilization (named after the leading Greek city on the peninsula from 1600-1200 BCE) emerged.


    Ziggurat of Ur

    was built by Sumerian king Ur-Nammu. Sumerians called it temen, from which the later word temple was derived.

    2000 - 1500

    Minoan Civilization

    (named after the Cretan ruler Minos) reached its height with its central power in Knossos on the island of Crete. This culture may have been more female-oriented and peaceful than others at the time.

    c. 2000-1700

    Abraham left Ur in Chaldea (according to traditional sources). This is often called the age of the "patriarchs" (

    Abraham , Isaac and Jacob ).

    c. 2000

    Domestic bathroom plumbing appeared in Crete.

    c. 2000

    Babylonians replaced Sumerians as the dominant power in the Middle East, creating a decimal system notation.

    c. 1800

    Babylonians are believed to have initiated the custom of the handshake. It began with grasping the hand of a statue of the god Marduk in order to receive his power symbolically and it later came to symbolize good will.

    c. 1792-1750

    Hammurabi ruled Babylon and created his famous legal code.


    The Babylonians began using windmills to pump water for irrigation.

    1700 - 1500

    Possible dates for when Joseph could have been in Egypt.

    1660 - 1550

    The Hyksos, a Semitic tribe, invaded Egypt and dominated the Nile Delta for about a century. The Hyksos were successful because they were superior archers and rode horses and chariots at the same time.

    c. 1650

    Cult of Yahweh

    , earliest form of Judaism, may have been created by Abraham and carried on by his sons.


    The Hyksos, a semitic tribe which had dominated the Nile Delta, was finally driven out by Egyptian leader Ahmose I, who then founded the 16th Dynasty.

    1523 - 1027


    Dynasty in China.


    Date of the

    Exodus of the Hebrews out of Egypt. (according to fundamentalist sources)


    Ten Commandments

    were received. (according to fundamentalist sources)

    c. 1479

    Egyptian armies under Pharaoh Tuthmosis III defeated a confederation of Palestinian states and captured a fortress on the hill of Meggido. Christian theology predicts a final battle between good and evil on this spot (Armageddon = Hill of Megiddo). The first use of the title "Pharaoh," which means "Great House," is found here applied to Tuthmosis.


    A massive volcanic eruption at Thera destroyed the Minoan civilization on Crete. Because of huge waves rising up to 160 feet, the water levels along the eastern shores of the Mediterranean at first dropped, but then the Egyptian cost was flooded by large amounts of seawater, resulting in famine due to the loss of arable farmland.


    Hebrews arrive in Canaan (according to traditional sources)


    Iron Age

    began in Asia Minor when methods for smelting iron ore were developed


    Mycenaean Civilization

    replaced Minoan Civilization after the destruction of Knossos. Bronze weapons, war-scenes on art, Cyclopean defense walls, and the fact that male warriors were buried with their weapons provide evidence for the claim that the Mycenaeans were militaristic. The horse-drawn chariot emerged around this time and the Mycenaeans would dominate the Aegean world for about 200 years.


    Amenhotep IV, aka

    Akhenaten , ruled Egypt and developed the first recorded strict monotheism. He was succeeded by his nine-year-old son Tutankhamen, who eliminated his religious reforms


    In Babylon they developed a new alphabetic script which was a further simplification of the cuneiform writing.


    Accession of Ramses II, the Great, of Egypt to pharaoh.

    c. 1250

    Possible date of the

    Exodus of the Hebrews out of Egypt. (according to modern scholars)


    Israelites of some sort were definitely in Canaan - Ramses II's son Merneptah defeated them in battle. They were not necessarily the same Israelites as those who left in the Exodus - they might have been from earlier emigrations.


    Period of the

    Judges in Israel.



    epic, recorded in cuneiform script, is the first known such written legend.


    Traditional date set for the city of Troy being destroyed by besieging Greek armies.


    Nebuchadrezzar I reigned as King of Babylon for 23 years.


    According to biblical accounts in

    Samuel , Israelite armies suffered massive losses to the Philistines.



    conquered Israel.

    1027 - 771


    Dynasty in China.

    1020 - 922

    Period of the United Kingdom of Jews.



    , last of the Israelite Judges, anointed Saul as the first King of Israel. Saul led a successful rebellion against Philistines.

    c. 1000

    Earliest Old Testament documents were created from older and highly developed oral tradition.



    was killed at the Battle of Gilboa and was succeeded by David, first as King of Judah and then later as King of Israel. David later captured Jerusalem and made it his capital.

    c. 1000-950

    Biography of David may have been composed, eventually becoming a written narrative of David's life later included in I and II

    Samuel and I Kings .

    c. 1000


    invaded the region of modern Spain, giving the Iberian Peninsula its name.


    David died and was succeeded by his son,

    Solomon .


    Dedication of the Temple of Jerusalem, built by Solomon.

    c. 950 - 900

    Composition of the "Yahwistic" (

    J ) document, one of the four major sources believed to have been the basis of the Pentateuch (Books of Moses): Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy.


    Death of Solomon, who was succeeded by his son, Rehoboam. Rebellion against Rehoboam was led by Jeroboam, leading to a split of the kingdom into

    two halves : Judah in the south under Rehoboam and Israel in the north under Jeroboam.

    c. 900

    Assyrian war chariots were equipped with metal tires (copper or bronze) for greater durability.


    Ashurnasirpal II, Assyrian king, began a 24-year reign during which he defeated Babylon and ensured Assyrian dominance throughout the Near East.



    of Israel joined with Ben Hadad of Damascus and Irkhuleni of Hamath in an allied army to halt Shalmaneser III. Egypt and Jehoshaphat of Judah lent support, but the alliance failed to stop the onslaught.

    c. 850

    Traditional date for the probable composition of Homer's epic poems The Illiad

    and The Odyssey.

    c. 850

    Traditional date for when Elijah lived and prophecized.

    c. 850 - 800

    Composition of the "Elohistic" (

    E ) document, another major source of the Pentateuch.



    , an Israelite soldier, led a rebellion against Jehoram, Ahab's son, and founded a new dynasty in Israel. By the next year, however, he was paying tribute to the Assyrian leaders.


    Phoenicians founded Carthage (literally: "New Town") near their North African colony of Utica.


    Indians began to venerate cows and dairy products.


    Increase in trade and the establishment of governmental defense fortifications allowed for the emergence of Greek city-states from tribal communities. These grew up around marketplaces and included Athens, Thebes and Megara on the Greek mainland. The Greek city-states were considered the most famous units of Greek political life to develop in this society.

    800 - 500

    This period, often referred to as the Archaic period, marked the developments of literature and the arts, politics, philosophy and science. The Peloponnesian city of Corinth, Sparta and cities along the coast of the Aegean Sea flourished. For the most part, the Greek city-states were similar in their political evolution, with the exception of Sparta's elite dictatorship.

    Most began their political histories as monarchies, evolved to oligarchies, were overthrown during the age of the tyrants (650-500 BCE) and eventually established democracies in the sixth and fifth

  • jaguarbass

    Nice chart of historic periods.

  • jayhawk1

    Nice chart Terry, where did you pull it from?

  • dorayakii

    Didn't you know, that the absence of Post-Deluvian vegetation is the reason why Jehovah-God (TM) allowed Noah and his family to eat meat?

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Wait a minute, I want to comment on the submerged plants.

    Genesis 7 (NIV) says:

    17 For forty days the flood kept coming on the earth, and as the waters increased they lifted the ark high above the earth. 18 The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. 19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. 20 The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet. [b] , [c] 21 Every living thing that moved on the earth perished?birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.

    Two points, if I may -

    1. Everything was covered by at least 20 feet of water for a YEAR.

    As an experiment, take some garden seeds and let them soak in 20 feet of water for a year and then tell me how many germinate. I'm thinking of a number between zero and zero; can you guess what it is? I'll bet that even a lotus would not germinate in 20 feet of water. Likewise for established plants - show me a plant that can be covered - not just "wet feet" but COVERED - to the top and 20 feet beyond - with water for a year and survive that treatment. One addition thing to consider is that light intensity at 20 feet below the surface of a body of water is a fraction of what it is at the surface. Photosynthesis and other herbaceous metabolic processes would have stopped. Even a plant deprived of "the breath of life" will die.

    2. In verse 23 the inspired and infallible word of God says that every living thing that was on the face of the earth died. It doesn't say "except plants," it says EVERY LIVING THING.

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