by jayhawk1 50 Replies latest watchtower bible
my small grandsons other grandmother, the JW one, read them that story when she had them visiting her and it really traumatized them. They worried that if they did something wrong, they would be turned into a salt pole. That was when my son and daughter-in-law put their foot down and forbid her to talk any religion to them.
These Bible stories are just like other fairy tales, meant to scare children.(and adults)
Target
As a side note, categorising Lot as "righteous" in opposition to the "ungodly" was not an original idea from the author of 2 Peter. It was a popular Hellenistic Jewish reading connecting the negotiation between Abraham and Yahweh in Genesis 18 about the number of "righteous" people in Sodom (same contrast between dikaios, "righteous," and asebès, "ungodly," in the Septuagint of v. 23ff) with the following episode. E.g. Wisdom of Solomon 10:6ff:
Wisdom rescued a righteous man when the ungodly were perishing;
he escaped the fire that descended on the Five Cities.
Evidence of their wickedness still remains:
a continually smoking wasteland,
plants bearing fruit that does not ripen,
and a pillar of salt standing as a monument to an unbelieving soul.
For because they passed wisdom by,
they not only were hindered from recognizing the good,
but also left for humankind a reminder of their folly,
so that their failures could never go unnoticed.
I would stress that it is a relative appraisal of Lot (vs. the "ungodly") and only refers to the cause of his salvation from Sodom, not to his attitude before or afterwards (which Philo, for instance, criticises).
Re: Was Lot A Righteous Man?
Naw, don't think so.
Offer up his daughters to some mob? wtf. They'd have to step over my dead corpse to hurt my family and not before I take a few of 'em with me,...
What, angels can't take care of a few drunks? "What kind of pussy angels are you guys anyways? Beat it. Get that bada$$ Gabriel to kick butt here and tell God to stop sending wimpy, voyeuristic angels to my house!"
And sorry but that whole incest thing is f***ed up. I don't care how drunk you are, normal people don't do that s***. And what were the daughters thinking?
Fable or not, that whole thing is just wrong.
Target,
I guess I can see your point about it being classified as a fairy tale. I think of Sleeping Beauty or Red Riding Hood, but I can see how a fairy tale can be evil. The Lot story I classify as evil.
my small grandsons other grandmother, the JW one, read them that story when she had them visiting her and it really traumatized them. They worried that if they did something wrong, they would be turned into a salt pole. That was when my son and daughter-in-law put their foot down and forbid her to talk any religion to them.Smart move!
He was righteous because he loved god more than his own family...what isn't that what the JWs already teach. Blah.
Narkissos, I have a question you might be able to help with. Lot is compared to Noah both in 2 Peter and by Jesus in Matthew. Why? I suppose I can get behind the myth that Noah was a righteous man, Genesis does not detail Noah offering up his family's women or bedding his daughters-in-law. I'm going to guess he didn't touch his boys, although the story of Noah getting drunk raises suspicions. But is it only because Jehovah killed non-believers in Him that these two men are offered up as righteous?
Anybody can take a stab at answering the question.
Twitch, I totally agree with everything you said.
Mysterious said,
He was righteous because he loved god more than his own family...what isn't that what the JWs already teach. Blah.Maybe so. I wonder if it could happen that JW men would ever do something similar. Aside from the blood doctrine that is. "No my child can't have a blood transfusion, I love Jehovah more!"
Twitch, I like the way you say things.
Any man or woman, who would stand by and give his daughters or sons to a mob, or not fight for them with every ounce of strength they have, they are scum of the highest sort.
I always thought this and it was so hard not to literally scream at God 'what were you thinking?" I agree too, surely those two daughters did not think there would never be another man around to have children by. And yes, if a man is so drunk he can't remember who he is having sex with, I doubt he can have sex. Lot was not a young man, after all. the daughters were not drunk, imagine, having sex with your own father, to become pregnant. ew wwwww
Imagine, we all just accepted reading this horrible stuff to our children, and now, when we look at it objectly, the fables made more sense, even the cartoon ones. We had to surpress our own natural reaction to this to be servants of god .i'm so disgusted.
He was Abraham's close relative so he had to share some of his righteousness.
What does it mean to be righteous?
Actually, the WTS puts righteousness in context of the historical times or they say they do.
They point out there was no written law code against fornication, adultery, polygamy, incest (note that Lot's daughters were adults and they initiated the sexual contact with their father according to the story; this is not the case of an adult father sexually raping his minor children), etc.
Yet, they praise Joseph for not committing adultery although there was no written law code (for Abraham's descendants; they may have been written laws against adultery for the Egyptians) yet excused Judah for committing fornication with a temple prostitute (really his daughter-in-law Tamar) because there was no law code.
The WTS teaches there are ways to know right and wrong without a written law code by quoting:
(Romans 2:14-15) For whenever people of the nations that do not have law do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. 15 They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts, they are being accused or even excused.
So based on that scripture, did Joseph, Judah, or Lot need a written law code to know these things were 'wrong'? This is what the WTS reaps when they use OT examples to teach people how to be Christians.
Blondie
