Thirdwitness -- An Agent of the Governing Body?

by AlanF 156 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • sf
    sf


    Nice seeing ya Alan.

    possibility that the relatively new GB member Guy Pierce might have decided to spearhead a group of young Bethelites and/or outside JWs to "handle" the "apostate critic" problem. Would Pierce have the mental wherewithal to understand the implications of doing this? Not likely. The now-deceased oldtimers had enough experience to understand that they were better off keeping quiet in terms of publishing specific defenses. Better to just publish their claims in regular Watchtower literature and ignore almost all criticisms, except the occasional sideways reference that never really addressed the criticism.

    I fully concur with this. It is entirely logical. And absolutely possible. Most likely been going on for some time. That surely is no surprise.

    It certainly is not surprise that the E-Klan is alive and Awake!

    being a true believer, he must think that Jehovah would give "spirit-direction" to whoever was assigned the research and writing task.

    Exactly, he MUST. Absolutely declare it even!

    same goes for his assigning Bethelites or whoever to tackle Internet "apostates" -- "apostate" being the operative term for JW critics of any sort.

    Ah yes, those were the days johnny cip and I spent COUNTLESS hours in the YAHOO JW USER CHATROOMS having fun with Them, as they were there ever day. We even had Bethel, on the phone, over our mics. It was priceless. We ALWAYS won the 'game'.

    {{{ hugs }}}

    sKally

  • avengers
    avengers

    SF.

    I spent COUNTLESS hours having fun with Them

    Havin'fun ey?

    Isn't this somethin?

    Andy

  • sf
    sf

    Nice seeing you too Andy.

    Yea, back in the day it was brutal. I spent hours pasting blondie's comments, Randys news, silentlambs updates, Norms essays, Alans 'work', Rays book on mic, etc. If it could be done, I did it.

    I'm not kidding, it took hours, days even, to complete some projects I resigned myself to. Email campaigns, field work/ working with community leaders, reps, and teachers, endless phone calls, etc.

    The rewards of all that work is knowing, having proof, that it DID help SOME actually re-think their "membership" as "One of Jehovah's Witnesses" and ultimately "leave".

    Those yahoo user rooms don't exist anymore and my days of crusading have turned other directions offline. Along with my life and that of my daughter. I find apostate field work just as rewarding. Making sure that the levl of awareness stays up in the highest degree.

    Love ya, sKally

  • saki2fifty
    saki2fifty

    "Thirdwitness -- An Agent of the Governing Body?"

    Or maybe I am... maybe I'm working in conjunction with the GB... with TW, Scholar and the like serving me up as bait, feeding the site with a fictional life story along with a random picture in order to gather sympathy and pity... working as a Trio of apologists for a single hidden agenda...

    The purpose?

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul

    saki2fifty,

    I don't think you are in league with the posters using the thirdwitness account, nor do I think is scholar. The purpose of thirdwitnesses posts is not to positively assert data in favor of the Watchtower Society's chronology and explanations, but to challenge and debate the validity of the current view of secular history. Utimately, even if thirdwitness is an agent of the Governing Body, it doesn't matter beyond trying to determine what WTS agenda might be driving this new strategy.

    The position taken by the thirdwitness posters seems to be that if secular history's chronology is wrong at all then we must allow for the possibility that the Watchtower Society's chronology is right. That is, of course, insane.

    Yet, thirdwitness wrote to me that he will not Scripturally defend basic teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses. Not because he admits he can't, but because he says he believes I have returned to Christendom. How I could have done that when I was raised as one of Jehovah's Witnesses is beyond me. Typically, people can only return to that to which they once belonged or to the place where they once were. In other words, he can't find any Scriptural support for the JW requirements prior to baptism and he is covering for his lack of basic Bible knowledge (which isn't a lack of Bible knowledge as much as an admission that the doctrines aren't based on the Bible) by redirecting attention to something, anything, else.

    Did I once believe the requirements were Bible based? Sure. I would have told anyone the requirements prior to baptism were Bible based. But that is only because I trusted what the Watchtower Society publications said. Now I know for certain that their doctrine is not Bible based, and very simple basic questions posed to any JW can prove it. It doesn't require complex chronological analysis and haranguing over various bits of secular data. It is very simple and direct. The foundation teachings are not based on the Bible.

    If the little things are taught as things of God when they are provably doctrines of men, there is no need to go further. The bigger things are without question doctrines of men.

    How's that research coming? Did you find the Scriptures to support the doctrine on pre-baptismal requirements yet? Shadow posted some questions for me on the thread, but didn't offer any Scriptures to support their dogma. Unless he believes Mark 8:34 supports requiring a specific prayer of dedication to Jehovah prior to baptism, which would be odd since the context doesn't mention baptism at all. I'm looking forward to any Scriptures either one of you can come up with.

    Respectfully,
    AuldSoul

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    Auldsoul - you naughty person - you have not done today's Watchtower. It reads --

    Therefore, if you have a basic knowledge of Jehovah and his purposes, a sincere desire to do his will, and a good reputation in the congregation, and you are faithfully attending meetings and sharing in preaching the good news of the Kingdom, why would you put off getting baptized?--Matthew 28:19,20.

    So there you have it - all the pre-requisites for baptism - and also the watchtower scriptural proof - Matthew 28:19,20 in black and white

  • saki2fifty
    saki2fifty
    stillajwexelder: Auldsoul - you naughty person - you have not done today's Watchtower. It reads ; ; --

    Therefore, if you have a basic knowledge of Jehovah and his purposes, a sincere desire to do his will, and a good reputation in the congregation, and you are faithfully attending meetings and sharing in preaching the good news of the Kingdom, why would you put off getting baptized?--Matthew 28:19,20.

    So there you have it - all the pre-requisites for ; baptism - and also the watchtower scriptural ; ;proof - Matthew 28:19,20 in black and wh

    I read that same article... and interesting that you brought it up, for I was going to use it in addition of supporting my case against AuldSouls previous thread. But why use something so obvious in favor of what AS supports?

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul

    saki2fifty,

    Jesus gave that command to those who were baptized already. The "parting counsel," or "commission", is found at Matthew 28:18-20; Mark 16:15-18; Luke 24:44-49; and Acts 1:1-11. Even within this broader view of Jesus' parting words, there is no requirement to preach to anyone, study, attend meetings, prove possession of basic Bible knowledge, or solemnly make a dedication vow to Jehovah prior to baptism.

    The stipulation that Jehovah's Witnesses put in place that is unscriptural is that these are pre-baptismal requirements, i.e. that the Bible teaches that these must precede baptism. That is what I am looking for Scriptural support for.

    The reason stillajwexelder noted Matthew 28:19, 20 is because it plainly doesn't say anything about pre-baptismal requirements. As requirements preceding baptism, Matthew 28:19, 20 does not mention the following: "basic knowledge of Jehovah and his purposes, a sincere desire to do his will, a good reputation in the congregation, ... faithfully attending meetings and sharing in the preaching of the good news of the kingdom."

    Respectfully,
    AuldSoul

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    I will also add that the notions of having "a basic knowledge of Jehovah and his purposes, a sincere desire to do his will" implicitly contain the requirement that the unbaptized person be willing to submit to anything and everything that the Watchtower Society throws his way, including the baptismal vow -- never discussed before the baptismal talk -- to unreservedly follow God's "spirit-directed organization". This is the kind of deceit that so many ex-JWs find so disgusting.

    AlanF

  • Death to the Pixies
    Death to the Pixies

    Saki:"Thirdwitness -- An Agent of the Governing Body?"

    Or maybe I am... maybe I'm working in conjunction with the GB... with TW, Scholar and the like serving me up as bait, feeding the site with a fictional life story along with a random picture in order to gather sympathy and pity... working as a Trio of apologists for a single hidden agenda...

    The purpose?

    Reply: That is pretty funny. I thought the group was kinda joking at first with this non-sense but it seems wierd theories are in vogue. Funny they would expect Bethel to be in cahoots with people who have not shown they are steady in the truth for an extended period of time. 2 years ago these guys were declaring the GB immoral. Now the GB is in conjunction with them somehow? If I were a betting man I would say the clique is 3rdWitness-- A guy named Al-- and a fella who posts elsewhere as trobledmind (no relation to the troubled mind who posts here).. Just guys who are computer savvy who like to research with the explicit intent to show their old mentor to be in error. Stuff like this makes you realize how much seriousness you need to take internet posturing about these issues. Claims of victory and blatent disrespect people have shown 3rdwitness and others... Why bother? This is kinda why I gave up on getting into any serious debates on the net a few months back,. It also shows the need to take these theatrics with a grain of salt...However if you sift through the BS you can find some decent info from both sides.

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