Rejecting God or rejecting religion?

by kojo 66 Replies latest jw friends

  • Wasanelder Once
    Wasanelder Once

    You don't need no church house
    And you don't need no Temple
    You don't need no rosary beads or them books to read
    To see that you have fallen
    If you open up your heart
    You will know what I mean
    We've been kept down so long
    Someone's thinking that we're all green

    George Harrison

    Me? Don't need a church, or Hall or any of that hoodydoo. I'll take a forest of redwoods and celebrate the fact that I'm gonna be part of them when I'm dust. For now? Just be a good guy, how can you fail?


  • Undecided

    What gets me thinking is why did God make mankind and what did he expect from them. He made us to live a few years and then get sick and die from some disease or old age. He lets all sorts of disasters happen and expects us to love him when he could prevent it? It doesn't happen to just evil people but everyone is treated the same. I just don't see the reason for it all. It would be nice to have faith that you were special and God was going to be good to you but I just don't seem to be able to get an answer from him.

    Ken P.

  • Perry
    Why really must we make things so complicated?

  • Undecided


    God could remove the evil of killing thousands of people from earth quakes, volcanoes, storms, mosquitoes etc. This has nothing to do with us chosing anything.

    You said he suffered and died for us. Now why was that necessary since all he had to do was forgive us the sin of Adam.

    I really don't want the freedom to kill and hurt others and I sure don't like them having the freedon to do that to me.

    Ken P.

  • Perry
    I really don't want the freedom to kill and hurt others and I sure don't like them having the freedon to do that to me.

    Make up your mind.

  • moshe

    I realize He is still in control and very much real and alive for those who wish to know Him.

    In control of what?- Where was God when a tsunami killed 250,000 innocent people on the Indian Ocean on December 26th a few years ago?

    Has God intervened to change the course of any disaster , war, plague, ice age, asteroid collision, magnetic pole reversal,etc? Was God alive for our hunter gatherer ancestors? How about Neanderthal man? Was God alive for men in the past? - 6000 years ago, 20,000, 100,000? We live on a planet that is probably one of a kind for a million light years in any direction and yet, in a million years or less humans , if they are still alive as a species will probably fall back to an earlier primative time to survive the changes in earths climate and the effects of numerous natural extinction events and global wars.

    In any event, the Sun will grow hotter and hotter and eventually burn all the water and atmosphere off this planet killing every living thing. God will not intervene to stop any extinction event- if he had intervened to stop the asteroid impact that wiped out the dinosaurs, then we wouldn't be here today as a species- the top predator of this planet. God can't and won't stop these catastrophes. Which brings us to this conclusion. Jesus, if he was the Son Of God, wouldn't promise something that God can't deliver- protection from harm and death in the natural course of life- a disaster is waiting for any one of us- hurricane, tornado, killer virus, accidents, etc. Jesus promised to come back and save mankind- but that is not how God works. Everyone else can have comfort in their own personal belief as long as it does no harm to another person. (sorry JWs). Religion by my defintion, is a belief system to explain the unexplainable. Nothing more. Man can hope for a life after death, but if our hunter gatherers and neanderthal ancestors have not crossed over , then it is unlikely that heaven awaits us,either. I doubt this post agrees with many and that's OK, by me. I am not out to convert anyone.



  • Arthur
    My very first experience with Jesus was when I WAS a JW child, going out in service, and being left home alone alot. I was about 11. I was home alone reading the book of John, and at some point I got on my knees and said to Jesus, "I am not quite sure what you were explaining to Nicodemus, but whatever it means to be born again, please Jesus, I want it"

    That was my first experience with the Holy Spirit as He came over me. There are no words to describe that.

    That's really neat. That's the first time I heard of someone that young having that kind of experience. If you don't mind me asking, how does your mother feel about you and treat you now? And, if you don't mind me asking a second question, what Christian denomination do you belong to?

  • JamesThomas


    You can't just say Jesus is one of many prophets when He said " I and my Father are one", and " I am the Way , The Truth, And the Life ,no one comes to the Father except through Me". That pretty much sets him apart from all others, and many would say that Christianity is an intolerant belief because of that.

    Thank you. Kogo, for your open and honest answer.

    Actually, the words that you quoted above, which are accredited to Jesus, are quite beautiful. Especially if understood in a spiritual, or universal sense, rather than in the mundane carnal way that the Bible and Christians generally encapsulate them.

    In a practical space and time sense, we often need to reduce, divide and personalize things in order to function on a physical level. The mind breaks things into small pieces that we may understand and move through our day to day existence (best know the difference between a kitten and a speeding truck). This is the nature and purpose of the mind operation; and it is extremely useful on a physical level; but when it comes to God, the carnal way of understanding is a misuse of the limited mind; and it doesn't work.

    For example, when Joe Blow says that he is this, that, or the other thing, he is speaking of his little old personal self. He, is this, that, and the other thing, and you're not. Joe blows truth is extremely limited and restricted to conditional and personal location, place, time and understanding. However, when God says something, it is an all pervasive Universal Truth.

    So, the "I" that Jesus was referring to is not a Joe Blow "I", referring only to a personal little self; but rather the UNIVERSAL I. The real and actual Self that all life shares. The One pristine I, which all universe exists within.

    This I, this Beingness which exists within all of us ( just beneath the mentally created individual little self, or "me", or "I'") is what Jesus was referring to. The DIVINE Truth, which if true for one, is true far all, and there is no escaping it.

    The problem with religion is they stay in a carnal-mind-mode, and so shrink what is infinitely divine into a tiny thing, or object. This is a lie. What is it that is most intimate and close? What is it that looks out every eye? What is it that breaths existence into every tree and star? This, is the I which is one with the Father. This is the I which is the way, the life, and the truth. And this is the I, which Poppers is so beautifully and intimately guiding people to see and realize. Notice that he is directing you to the center and depths of your own self.; and this is what Jesus was doing (though the clarity of his instruction was likely removed through so much carnal interpretation and ignorance).

    It comes down to this: Ultimately, there is not God, and. There is no place, no time, where anything other than God exists.

    Be still of all thoughts and beliefs which give credence to a self separate from what is Divine. Let go of all you believe yourself and other to be. No man has seen God and lived, simply because there is no man, no thing which lives outside of God.

    If you believe yourself to be a lover of God, and upon hearing of an infinite God, you sense offence, it may be wise to ponder as to why that is. What diminutive ideas and beliefs of God, are you embracing? And who is this little "i" that thinks itself so grand that it can somehow genuinely reduce the Source and Sustenance of all existence?

    Be still, and know...


  • Perry

    Undecided & Moshe,

    I think volcanoes and tsunamis are on the "to do" list, right after God's family is fully revealed and evil and freedom are reconciled.

    Rom. 8

    21 because the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together until now; 23 and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

    "Abramam believed God"

  • LittleToe


    Does one need the context of god or prayer in order to "be still and know" and still feel "awesome peace and presence"?

    No, however: Does one need the absence of the context of god or prayer in order to "be still and know" and still feel "awesome peace and presence"?

    Please tell me you're not so bigotted as to believe that your's is the only way...


    It comes down to this: Ultimately, there is not God, and. There is no place, no time, where anything other than God exists.

    Please tell me you're not so bigotted as to believe that your's is the only way...

Share this