Oh by the way. Do all watches do this or just the battery type. Try Seiko Kenitic watch runs on your movement. Or Citizen Eco-Drive it is solar powered. I would be interested to know.
80% of Near Death Experiencers Can't Wear Watches...
IP_SEC: All its done to me is make me question what the physical reality of life is in the first place.
I am curious whether it has only made you question, or whether it has served to make you accept that reality must encompass more than only tangible existence. I have posted on other threads that if a spiritual aspect to reality exists then it is no less real than the tangible, physical reality. I think this thread is dealing specifically with this issue, in an indirect way.
As I sit typing this, I am watchless because I can't wear one for very long and have it keep functioning. It either speeds up (if it's a windup) or the battery drains ultra-quickly. I have no idea why electrical impulses would cause a windup watch to run fast, if someone could explain that I would appreciate it. I was not aware of any connection between gadgetry failure and OBE/NDE. My curiosity is definitely piqued, though. Thanks for the thread FMZ.
Here is a simple exercise that an ex jay who is into stuff like this demonstrated.
A person who does not know about this exercise stands close to a wall with his hands extended towards the wall but his fingers do not touch, maybe about 3 inches away. His eyes are kept closed. The person conducting the exercise stands directly behind him, rubs his hands if I remember right, then holds them up behind the person's back, palms toward the first person's back, but not touching, about three inches away. If the extended palms push towards the person, the body of the person will move towards the wall, eventually even touching it. If the palms are moved backwards, the person moves his back backwards.
Has anybody read 'Closer to the Light'? There are many books on the subject. I have seen it reported many times that those who have had nde's have difficulties with watches and even street lights going out as they go by.
While the US Army has conducted experiments that seem to replicate the nde experience the difference is that most people who have had nde's (not the Army subjects) feel it was a profound experience and tend to make changes in their life and/or personalities for the better. Friends and family often report they are 'nicer' people, less angry, and are not stressed in life nor do they fear death at all. The Army subjects felt no emotional profound effects. Just reporting what I have read. Sorry I don't remember the sources as it was years ago I read on the subject.
How a nde would affect a jw who believes anything that cannot be explained as demons or evil I have no clue.
I am curious whether it has only made you question, or whether it has served to make you accept that reality must encompass more than only tangible existence.
I think Im going to work up a thread on super string theory and metaphysics. Or rather string theory not only unifying Relativity and Quantum theory, but also marrying physics and metaphysics into a scientific framework for reality.
The short answer to your question is yes... I think so.
So, he says "most" of the 80% of NDEers stop watches... This means that at the very least, 51% of the 80% stop watches. That places us at about 40% at the very least. Again, comparing this to the 4% of non-NDEers, there is a chasm of difference. As for Morse's numbers, I quote: "Morse says 4% of normal adults and 2% of out-of-body experiencers claim they make watches stop". An OBE is not an NDE, and vice versa. Do not equate the two. This statement says nothing about NDEers, only OBEers.
I accept your point about definitions.
Forgetting the Morse survey. From a skeptical POV there's still nothing to it. Nothing at all.
You can't just say most must translate into a figure greater than 50%.
That's something we might expect, but one of the important steps in making a skeptical appraisal is to compensate for the bias caused by expectation.
The percentage is not stated so therefore is unknown (I'm still bugged by the question: why is it unknown? Seems a huge oversight on behalf of the author - did he forget to count them?)
But anyway, as I said earlier: there is nothing here but anecdotal evidence, and anecdotal evidence is no evidence at all.
Anyone who can stop watches, do what the earlier poster said, go visit James 'The Amazing' Randi and collect your million dollars.
Thinking out loud:
If I found out that 'most of 80%' of NDEers cause watches to stop, I'd be amazed!
I'd be so excited and motivated, I'd want to do a bigger more scientific study.
Because this isn't a small effect that might be hard to distinguish, this is 'most of 80%'!!!! That's just too easy to prove... too damn easy!
So, I assume this larger scientific study must be happening: Have they finished yet? If so, what are the results? Was the study successfully replicated by an independent group of scientists who found the same result?
Another thought comes to me:
The problem here is one of qualification, people have a tendency to re-state 'evidence' according to their own bias.
For instance, on the same website, in describing the referenced page, this phrase is used:About 75% of NDErs mysteriously make watches stop
what it should say is:
Most of 80% (I forget how many) of 27 NDEers I have spoken to believe they stop watches.
The second statement I have no issues with, the first one I do because it makes the assumption that a statement of belief that something has occurred is equal to the event actually occurring. There is overwhelming evidence for humans remembering things that did not occur, or the related problem of spotting patterns that have no basis in reality. For instance, as an extreme example, humans are entirely capable of having having false memories implanted in them. If you combine a leading question with a credulous respondee, you can get a positive response to almost any question.
But MsMcDuckett, wouldn't it be just easier for me to throw the damn thing away? I ain't in the army....so why do I need an army watch
Gumby, you have a watch that's working. And it's would be a waste to throw a watch away that works for you! Also, it is not just military time, it's the time that they use in hospitals, and what else??? Anyway...
If you don't want the watch, just send it to me!
The feeling that its about to happen seems to come from nowhere.
IP-Sec, that feeling is called an "Aura". Kinda like what epileptics, people with migraines, narcolepsy, and such get.
My question is what's an OBE? Is it "out of body experience"?