by Dogpatch 167 Replies latest jw friends
Maya Angelou's words helped me: "You did what you knew and when you knew better, you stopped doing it."
Willyloman: Thanks for this quote. Don't you love Maya Angelou? She just says things that are so obvious. I hadn't heard this one, but I'll remember it!!
Just to steer this thread in a bit of a different direction (hopefully):
Given the Bethel layoffs, this situation is extremely unlikely to be unique. As COs and DOs reach their 70's, 80's and 90's and their health care costs spiral, I fully expect dozens of individuals to be in the same situation as this DO in coming years. Our current CO is 80+, still in good health, but how much longer can that last?
Perhaps Emshoff is still loyal to the WTS. But will all of those dozens of soon-to-be-released COs and DOs be so loyal? Odds are, at least one will have an "axe to grind" and seek some measure of revenge.
Imagine the damage that could be done by a disgruntled CO or DO, with access to all sorts of letters that elders can't see, can't even touch. All those letters with the "oral instructions" that the elders are instructed to write in their "Flock" books. In the various court cases that are going on, how damaging might something like that with the Society's letterhead be?
If there are any COs or DOs lurking here: How long until you are "put out to pasture"? Have you considered "protecting yourself"? Are there letters, directives, etc. that you could copy and keep hidden, just as a form of "insurance" against a corporation that will very likely turn you aside one day?
no, it's choice. What else is the difference between he who stayed and we who left? We chose to research, and then think outside the square, and then act on it. We were all in the same cult and faced the same fears of the consequences of the same choices. I can't believe he's never had a doubt; he probably did just as constantly as we all did, but he never acted on it. And so here he is, unemployable, unskilled, and broke. A consequence of every choice he's ever made. We all build our own future.
The thing that turned me off of JW's most was their absolute judgement, harshness and prejudice - their view of all or nothing - their shades of only black and white. It's hard for me personally to understand how compassionate people can simplify things into one or the other without acknowledging and understanding all of a person or their life. If leaving mind control or abuse was so easy, if the choices were so easy, there would be no shelters for abuse victims. All little children would break free from abuse, all women and men would choose to run from their abuser no matter what form that abuse took, a verbally abused employee would run screaming with indignity from their employer - the list goes on. If we all had a choice and we all made great choices - there would never be a need for prisons or confessional or prayer. It isn't always as simple as saying 'I did it' or 'they're stupid' or ' too bad they are unskilled and broke'. People are people. A persons past will define their future and sometimes it takes most of one's life until they can remove themselves from that definition - or the past they are now. A man will pay for his actions sooner or later - judgement will bring judgement, selfishness will breed greed, arrogance will replace compassion - so while not exempting anyone from their actions - I try at the very least to remind myself of these things. Do I feel sorry for this man? Not really. He has not been df'd so he has no real comprehension the destruction of that action but I believe that he must be humbled from being demoted. As for choices - we are all people with different levels of strength and weaknesses. swife.
sammielee,
you said "the thing that turned me off of jws most was their absolute judgement, harshness and predjudice- their view of all or nothing- their shades of black and white."
it is the elders who spend their jw lives teaching these things, both from the platform and off the platform. they do this because it is the "arrangement". they do this because their masters tell them to. they do this because if they don't they will lose their precious position, they will lose their title, and they will be treated like trash just like any other person who is "only a publisher"
the elders are the ones who demand absolute obedience to the borg and whatever bizarre rules they can come up with. the elders are the ones who demand that you iognore scripture and use only the watchtower as their bible. have you ever had a scriptural discussion with someone who has no knowledge of scripture but is convinced he is "appointed by the holy spirit"? have you ever been threatened with death(disfellowshipping) because your conscience, backed by scripture, is not in line with the holy fds and their arrangement? well i have. and then when they are in an enviroment that doesn't call for this kind of bullshit it is the exelders who want to cling to this arrangement by their lame ass claims of repentance. because of their "repantance" we are supposed to "just get over it" well, i am an imperfect man and, i don't intend to "just get over it". i intend to fight this attitude as long as i live. and the elder class can "just get over" that.
and here is little tip for the elders who are still elders, like the man this thread was started for. the next time you are on the platform praying for jehovah's blessing on the pioneers, ministerial servants, elders, special pioneers, circuit overseers, district overseers, branch overseers, bethelites, the fds, and the governing body, throw a little my way and ask for a blessing on those who are "only publishers". it might make it seem as if you feel we are a part of this thing too. and if you are wondering, i actually heard a co ask this blessing from the platform. the jerk actually asked a blessing on himself and couldn't find anyplace in his prayer for me or any other commoner. he is also the one who said that you could find time to go in service more even if you are "only a publisher"
are any of you beginning to get a clue as to where my feelings of hate are coming from? personally i doubt it because you have to listen and consider my words to get a clue and those are just two of the things your masters didn't teach you.
j2s
Thanks for the support! God bless you all......
[Even though I "retired" from the board I have to reply to this thread because it is my greatest issue.]
It is a tragedy that an elderly person has been turned out into the cold. (I don't know all the details - did any of these people get a severance package?) I just can't believe they got nothing! While I would never rejoice over anybody's misfortune I am sure many of them were smug about the fact that they didn't have to be on the front lines like the rest of us. Well, now they have to.
I wonder, however, if the brother who made the callous remark about brothers who died on 9/11 is one of the ones who was let go. (In case nobody here heard, there was rumored to be somebody who made a remark about how "that's what they get for being at work and not out preaching...." or some words to that effect.) Really!
The problem with this situation is that they will try to pass the problem of these people onto the congregations. I am not active but I am angry nonetheless! Are they kidding?? People are lucky they can take care of themselves! The idea that they would be looking to persons like myself who work and were criticized for doing so is unforgivable and cannot be tolerated!
Do you know what the sick irony of this situation is? Even if I were active in the congregation, if I were ever to lose my job I would be the LAST person to get help! Why? Because I am not a pioneer. Only they deserve help, don't you know? This is the sick freakin' joke of it all. I am perceived as a "golden girl" because I have a job! People don't help someone they are jealous of.
Where the hell do they get off even imagining that somebody like me owes anybody anything? They shouldn't even be looking in my direction.
It is not that I have no compassion but I hope Jehovah finds these people a job.
LHG
The problem with this situation is that they will try to pass the problem of these people onto the congregations.
LongHairGal, I hope they do try to pass this along to the congregations. Many, including my relatives are under the delusion that Bethelites who 'retire' are put out to pasture in the company infirmary. Hubby talked to his mother today, asking her about Emshoff (he came from our area and she knew him and his family before he went to Bethel), and she said these ones are well taken care of by loving arrangement of the GB, that there are no worries for his retirement, he would be sent to the farm.
Here is my prediction: If he relocates to the area he is originally from, and is destitute, my family will spin this as either the GB allowing the brothers the privilege of showing christian charity to a Bethelite. Or if the brothers are operating as per usual and show no charity, the gossip mill will go into double overtime speculating what sin he has committed to loose out on the pot of gold at the end of the theocratic rainbow retirement that those in the hinterlands imagine Bethelites 'earn'.
Tough object lesson for Mr. Emshoff, but this could be an eye-opener for some lucky r&f publisher as to how the cult operates. Probably not in my family though.
You are also responsible for subjecting yourself to that authority. No one had a gun to your head. You werent shackled to those kingdom hall seats. The only real victims of the JWs are minor kids as they dont have choice. The adults can pick up and leave any day they are ready too. If you consider yoursef a victim of the mean elders, you made yourself a victim.
I gotta say this is one of the most callous things I think I've heard on this forum.
How anyone who has read the experiences of those posting here... the agonies many went thru when they began to doubt, when they began to see behind the curtain and admit to themselves that it wasn't just imperfect men, they shouldn't just 'wait on Jehovah' to make it right...the things that people have gone through here when they've finally left...could say something like this amazes me. It's certainly as heartless as anything a good little JW would say to someone who 'followed the rules' and suffered for it.
"It's your own fault"?? How many abused children and wives have heard that? "If you didn't ___, I wouldn't ___". To carry on with the abused spouse analogy, how many women are ashamed to try to get help because they know they'll hear, "Well, it's your own fault for not leaving" ??
How many of us are embarrassed to admit the stupid rules we followed, how much authority we gave over to this Org and the men who run it, when we talk to friends, family and co-workers who have never been 'in'??? And just why is that? Because we know we should have known better, we should have left sooner, we should have stood up for ourselves! We certainly don't need a lecture about how it's all our fault and we shouldn't complain about it!
It's never easy to leave. Hell, it's hard enough to admit to yourself that it's not the truth, it's not God's Organization, and you've been a fool for believing it was.
You don't know the circumstances of those who are still trying to believe it's the truth, or those who are trying to fade, or those who have to pretend for whatever reason that would ruin their lives further than the Org has already.
All elders weren't d*ckheads. Our PO was, he was a mean, domineering bully who steamrolled the nice two (if they fought him on anything the congregation never knew). Some of the 'rank and file' were nasty too. Some liked to sic' the elders on those they didn't like. There were good people too. The fear of hurting them was the only thing that made it hard to leave. And we were lucky! It was much easier for us to leave than many on here.
Someone, earlier in the thread, pointed out that those speaking up and standing up to those in 'authority' in this thread are finally doing so now when they didn't as a JW. That's very true.
It's also important to point out that some of the anger getting vented towards former elders, COs and DOs in this thread is actually displaced aggression. Some of the former elders here are hearing about pain caused by other elders, from another place and another time.
did this guy serve the janesville, wi area. for some reason his name is ringing a bell.
His name is Don Emshoff He was D.O./C.O in Wisconsin, Illinois, Colorado, California.
