Intolerance - a new breed of ex-JW

by LittleToe 260 Replies latest jw friends

  • press any key
    press any key

    I'm new here but one of the things I like about this site is the intelligent, reasoned but heartfelt discussion of religion and spiritual matters, it seems in most social situations anything more than a oneliner on religion is not the done thing, whereas here the range and depth of opinions runs the whole gamut and is openly discussed, and imho thats great

    for me, I went from bible bashing JW to bible burning athiest in about two minutes, and a year later have come back to admitting that I know next to nothing, so the journey continues

    so the thoughts of people who are on their own journey are interesting to me, cause if we didn't discuss with people on a different journey we wouldnt know what the view was like

    but you shouldn't be rude, or intolerant, unless they start it

    cheers

    pak

  • brutusmaximus
    brutusmaximus

    I think LT had sun stroke when he started this, you have to remember it has been dark for 6 months up there and to have had sunshine for a week would make anyone a wee bit cranky

    Only kiddin and no offence meant

    BM of the loves the sunny days class

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    AuldSoul:

    You have confused statement of belief with statement of fact. Your statement regarding the etymology of a word is akin to my frequently erroneous posts for which Narkissos and Leolaia patiently smack me on the head. If I understand how it works correctly, in order for a belief to be untenable it must first be framed as a falsifiable construct.

    Many statements of belief are falsifiable (for example, the belief that the universe was created 6,000 years ago) and are therefore suitable targets for correction. Unfalsifiable beliefs are little more than daydreams and can only be discussed in terms of how likely they might be given what we know.

    In the case of whether God exists to my knowledge there is no such construct, just as there would be none for whether pink unicorns exist.

    Agreed, and that is why I view a belief in God as identical to a belief in pink unicorns. I can't see why that would be considered a plus point.

    I would be delighted at any effort you might similarly muster against my personal belief in God.

    Can't do it. He's in the pink unicorn category, unless you want to venture some falsifiable belief about him.

    How about comfort? Have you considered that as a possible reason? Nostalgic desire to stay connected to something, a desire to not have been entirely wrong about everything could be considered pride, if you're a judgmental ass. But you don't strike me as one, so that could be another reason aside from pride. I don't think you really strained too much to come up with other reasons.

    Fair point. For some, belief is indeed a crutch or a security blanket, and in certain circumstances, I would refrain from challenging a person's beliefs. (I would not, for example, question someone's belief in an afterlife at their spouse's funeral.) But, when having a rational discussion with someone I consider intelligent and mature enough to deal with it, I would not accept comfort or nostalgia as a valid reason for believing in anything.

    Either way, ridiculing a belief is not the same as ridiculing a person for having the belief. All too often that line is crossed. There are thousands of reasons a person may have acquired a specific belief and very few of those reasons (comparatively) are actually deserving of ridicule. Even more rarely is the person who has the belief deserving of ridicule.

    It can be a fine line, and where it lies can be a matter of individual perception. Some people take a challenge to their beliefs very personally, even though the other person may be highlighting the absurdity of the belief only to show them there's no real reason to believe it.

    Ridicule is the stuff of scorn. Scorn presumes that you are better than others, that you are superior. With the possible exception of pride I cannot see why anyone would prefer to be scornful and correct. I have really tried hard to come up with alternate reasons and I cannot. If there are others, please share them with me.

    It can sometimes be a useful tool in helping people see that the only reason they hold a belief is because they used to hold it, and have kept it (for the sake of comfort, nostalgia or pride.) This is especially true for unfalsifiable beliefs (as falsifiable beliefs will be rejected by rational people based on contrary evidence). For example, a belief without evidence in a giant invisible man who created the universe and spoke to Bronze Age goatherds and is very concerned about what we do with our genitals cannot be falsified but can be ridiculed because it is ridiculous. A belief without evidence that somewhere in our universe other than earth there is intelligent life is also unfalsifiable, but is much less open to ridicule.

  • Sunnygal41
    Sunnygal41
    Ridicule is the stuff of scorn. Scorn presumes that you are better than others, that you are superior. With the possible exception of pride I cannot see why anyone would prefer to be scornful and correct. I have really tried hard to come up with alternate reasons and I cannot. If there are others, please share them with me.

    bingo. i agree, and well said. wish i could have articulated it so nicely.

  • Terry
    Terry
    Ridicule is the stuff of scorn. Scorn presumes that you are better than others, that you are superior. With the possible exception of pride I cannot see why anyone would prefer to be scornful and correct. I have really tried hard to come up with alternate reasons and I cannot. If there are others, please share them with me.




    Quackery is dangerous when people seek the phoney instead of the real to remedy a problem.



    A Quack steals people's right to true information from them and gives them false hope instead.



    Many people with cancer seek cures in the wrong places just because of the "claims" made by Quacks.



    In the final analysis the Quack can be a doctor who is phoney, a minister, a psychologist or spiritualist. They are scum.



    They deserve scorn and ridicule. Why? Because they earn it by the toll of human suffering the cause.



    Human survival is about getting accurate information about reality so that the best decisions can be made to improve your life.



    Quacks, charletons, phonies, God-peddlers promote false reality and harmful alternatives.



    The Vitamin industry is rife with practioners without accurate information who jabber constantly about things with no proof or evidence to corroborate their claims other than TESTIMONIALS.



    TESTIMONIALS are without evidentiary value. The thirsty man lost in the Sahara may "see" water up ahead. He may believe it. But, a mirage is still a mirage.

  • startingover
    startingover


    I just have to say that the last exchange between FunkyD and AuldS with a little Terry thrown is now one of the things that makes life worth living for me. It was an exchange like this that I first encountered on wit.net that changed my life.

    Thanks you guys.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    They deserve scorn and ridicule. Why? Because they earn it by the toll of human suffering the cause.

    And so taking this back to my original premise, do you see anyone around here who has so taken such a toll on the levels of suffering experienced by mankind that they deserve scorn and ridicule to be heaped upon them?

  • nicolaou
    nicolaou

    I've been sitting at my PC for 15 minutes wondering if I should respond to this thread. Too many times in the past I have wound believers up and been accused of proseltysing for athiesm. I've been accused of intolerance and a lack of respect and all I've ever done is post honestly and, I believe, fairly.

    Should I throw my views in one more time? What difference would it make?

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    wb Nic - join the party - I've missed your acerbic wit

  • XJW4EVR
    XJW4EVR

    I've been sitting at my PC for 15 minutes wondering if I should respond to this thread.Too many times in the past I have wound believers up and been accused of proseltysing for athiesm. I've been accused of intolerance and a lack of respect and all I've ever done is post honestly and, I believe, fairly.

    Should I throw my views in one more time? What difference would it make?

    Nicolaou,

    I, for one don't have a beef with atheists. Quite honestly I don't have a beef with anyone. What I have a beef with is the hypocrisy, scorn, ridicule, and condecension.

    If you post honestly, then good for you. However, I have seen too many acidic remarks from the "anti-God squad" to really believe that they are either honest or fair.

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