Why God refuses to interfere (page 2)

Blueblades

Biblically none of what you or the Bible says about how all of mankinds trouble started makes any logical sense.

Eve then Adam were responsible for what has happened to unborn mankind. We were born sinful and imperfect and proned toward doing things wrong. If Jesus was born with our imperfections not even he could avoid the doing of wrong.

Why God refuses to interfere is not because we chose anything, we were dead in the water from the get go. In all fairness, we should be allowed to be made perfect and stand on our own as to whether or not we would do as Eve and Adam did.

But then again this all based upon a belief system written down in a book.

Blueblades

Steve Lowry

"Biblically the answer is very simple: mankind exercise their freedom of choice and in so doing chose to be slaves to sin or the demons if you like. God respects that choice however foolish it may be. Alienation from the life of God, of the Spirit, is the central problem is it not?"

Wow, this is like right out of a Watchtower. It’s just like the Watchtower, in that it attempts to create the notion that only bad things happen to "bad" people (such as people who don't fit into expected doctrinal beliefs), ergo God doesn’t interfere there. Everything is either black or white, on or off, or, right or wrong, with this kind of thinking. As if, only bad or sinful people die in natural disasters and calamities. They brought this on themselves because they decidied to alienate themselves from God? Its easy to take the view that God doesn't interfere in people's lives who seem to be living sinful lives and then bad things happen to them (AIDS for instance?). But what about when bad things happen to those that you believe have not alienated themselves from God? Did God not intervene/interfere in their life and help them because maybe there was some great hidden sin in their life? Nah. It just happens. I don’t pretend to understand it.

Look, bad things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people, and neither is because God decided not to interfere, IMO. No one understands the reasons behind these things. If you believe in God, and you perceive that God is not interfering (or intervening) in peoples lives, don’t make the assumption that this is because these people have created their situation and alienated themselves from God. Job was one who lived a righteous life and look what happened to him. I don’t believe things happen at random, but I also don’t understand why God doesn’t (seemingly)interfere/intervene more in people’s lives who I believe to be godly folks when things go way bad for them. We may never have the answers for this problem. But please don't try and make a simple formula for why it seems that God isn't busy at His work in people's lives. He is, but we aren't always allow to see the reasons for the things He does.

luna2

God is busy making jello parfaits for his angelic spirit creatures. Humans are a second-class creation who he'll get back to when he's done whipping up his wiggly desserts.

Apostate Kate

Hellrider; on the Job story you have it a bit wrong. It was Satan that asked for Job by name. God did not do anything to hurt Job, He allowed it. We all die. I am 100% sure of that. It is to a believer that life begins on death of the body. Job 1:8 Yahweh said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant, Job? For there is none like him in the earth, a blameless and an upright man, one who fears God, and turns away from evil."

You may think the death of Jobs family was sadistic but if they immediatly went into a beautiful place, "the bosom of Abraham" do you really think they were unhappy about it? Jews believed in an afterlife too.

As far as the logical sense of it all, it is your perspective that sees it that way. That is great, it is none of my business if anything in the Bible makes sense to you or not. Everyone of us would have disobeyed, that is the logic I understand. According to the Bible, God is omnipotent and omniscient as is Christ so obviously He knew ahead of time what we would do.

According to the Bible God made the provision from the beginning for forgivness through the blood of Jesus. He had it all planned.

Hellrider

Apostate Kate: Yes, I know that it was Satan doing the actual killing. But God allowed it, even though he didn`t have to (supposedly, He knows the future), so he`s the one I really hold responsible. If God was good, he would have destroyed Satan long ago, but instead He allows Satan do it, just to win an argument. How childish is that. There was no need for Him to allow Satan to kill Jobs children. Mankind are able to mess it up for themselves allready, we don`t need a prince of Darkness to torment us even more.

But hey, the christian answer that does away with all this discussion, is of course "God has a plan" or "God moves in mysterious ways", "His ways are higher than us" or something like that. It`s ok, I respect that. But I don`t agree when people try to portray the Bible as a continuing, logical story. But I do enjoy the stories in themselves. All the stories in the Bible has some kind of "moral" in them, from the creation to the flood to the tower of Babel. I may not agree with the moral in all of them, but there is a moral (like in all fairytales, usually it is "it pays to be kind and obedient", at least in my countrys folklore ), and it is intended by the author(s). And that`s cool. It`s when people live their lives as if these stories were actually true (and often even without understanding the moral in them) that they mess up.

James Free

mankind exercise their freedom of choice and in so doing chose to be slaves to sin or the demons

HE never asked me how I wanted to exercise my freedom of choice, nor anyone living, so what 'choice' was that? Tell the starving millions 'It was your choice' and see what they say. Even the apostle Paul said we are born sinners, so no choice there!

As for needing time to prove a point..how much time does one need, how much suffering, how much pain?

The bible shows God does interfere when it suits him - the flood, babel, and so on.

Asking whether God's actions are an example of love is justified.

under_believer

Here's a question for you, then: if God exists out of time, and can see all events for all Eternity, and if God always does the single correct thing in response to every situation, then can God really be said to have free will? Or is God just another prisoner to the Fate that you believe we are subject to?

funkyderek

greendawn:

Biblically the answer is very simple: mankind exercise their freedom of choice and in so doing chose to be slaves to sin or the demons if you like.

What choice does a child have if it gets leukemia? What choice do people have if their town is hit by a tsunami? If people chose to serve your god, would he then prevent these tragedies? If so, then who is really responsible for them?

God respects that choice however foolish it may be.

Apparently he doesn't. The Bible is full of stories of God punishing people because they choose to do things their own way. The Bible god is a jealous bully.

Alienation from the life of God, of the Spirit, is the central problem is it not?

No, it's not a problem at all.

parakeet

"Biblically the answer is very simple: mankind exercise their freedom of choice and in so doing chose to be slaves to sin or the demons if you like."

Earth to Greendawn: Instead of "very simple," the word you really mean is "simplistic."
Scenario: Bully has just insulted little boy's dad. Little boy's dad stands back and lets his kid get bloodied and broken by bully just to see if the kid really "loves" him.
By your logic, your "very simple" explanation makes sense only to inhabitants of bizarro world. Try some actual thinking about these doctrines before posting.

Star Moore

Hellrider:

Most christians believe that God knows the future (as he is "outside time", and "the beginning and the end"), and he knows what`s inside a persons heart. So God, when testing Job, allready knew the outcome.

He must not have known the outcome..or he wouldn't have, had him tested...right?

Why God refuses to interfere

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