607

by Zico 290 Replies latest jw friends

Spectrum

Scholar,

Jesus died 2000 years ago and in another 2000 years he is still going to be dead, nice man but dead. And in the next 2000 years they'll be many coincidental events that will seemingly look like bibical fulfillments just as there has been in the previous 2000 years. You sound like a very intelligent person I think you really need to open your eyes and get your head around it, it's just probability. I mean just look at the Nostrodamus prophecies. They gleaned Hitler and JFK from those writings.

Has it not occured to you that a loving God would not let his children suffer for generation
after generation, after generation, after generation, after generation, after generation, after generation, after generation, after generation? And just to prove a point due to some bad arse angle. I don't think so. The Jews picked up on mesopotamian mythology and religion and made it their own. Follow your common sense and intelligence not one more religious group out of the USA.
scholar

jwfacts
Scholars do not accept 607 because they prefer higher criticism to the fact that the Bible is inspired of God. They prefer the theories of men against the clear statements in scripture.
Many early and current Bible students accept the imporatnce of 1914 and if only a minority accept this view then so be it. In order not to be misled by the Devil you should read God's Word and listen to His people and the true church and then you can be completely amused.
scholar JW
nicolaou

Scholar, check my posting history. I rarely - if ever - get personal, but you!!! Oh god scholar I could cheerfully just..
jwfacts

scholar, many scholars are not higher critics of the bible, they do believe it literally, and the WTS is not the only group that claims that the 70 years was literal.
In regards to your claim about the 1260 days, I have written a bit about the total absurbity of these prophecies.
The history of a number of the prophetic interpretations for Daniel is another classic struggle of attempting to find a modern day fulfillment that does not exist, resulting in contradiction, changes, inconsistencies, but little hint of divine guidance. In the 1800’s they were squeezed into 1800’s applications, in the 1900’s these were made to indicate 1900’s parallels. The current understanding is often quite amusing.
During the 1800’s Russell taught that the 1260, 1290 and 1355 days all started at the beginning of papal rule in 539 A.D. With 539, 1799 and 1874 no longer being considered relevant the explanation for these prophecies also have changed.
1290 days

1800’s
Originally the 1290 days of Daniel 12:11 were the 1290 years that extended from 539 A.D, to 1829. This marked the start of the Miller movement and the message of the Second Advent of Christ. (Studies in the Scriptures Series 3 p.84, Series 7 pp.40, 60, 163. Watchtower 1914 November 1)
1900’s
The 1290 days now have been given a rather unusual 20 th century application. This time period is now said to refer to days and not years, and be related to the period of time between the set up of the League of Nations in Jan 8 1918 to the Cedar Point convention on September 3 1922.

Strangely enough there are not 1290 days, but 1334 days between these two conventions, so the prophecy is around two months out. To make it fit the Watchtower makes the claim that Daniel was referring to 30 day months and hence 43 months. From January 1918 to September 1922 is 43 months if you do not count the first and last month. In other words solar days are converted to lunar months and then applied to solar months to make this prophecy fit, quite a stretch of the imagination.
Watchtower
1951 July 15 p.433
"The 1,290 days are therefore reckoned from the date of the setting up of the abomination, which was in the latter part of January, 1919. This period of 3 years and 7 months ends at September, 1922—the very time of the Cedar Point Convention mentioned above."
In more recent times the Watchtower presents the information in a manner that makes it almost appear to be a literal 1290 days.
Watchtower
1993 November 1 pp.10-12
"The League was proposed in January 1919. If we count 1,290 days (three years, seven months) from that time, we arrive at September 1922."

1335 days

1800’s
Daniel’s prophecy of the 1335 days of Daniel was interpreted to mean 1335 years after papal rule had started in 539 A.D, coming to "the Lord's second presence" in 1874 A.D. (Creation 1927 2,175,000 ed. p.298)
1900’s
The prophecy of 1335 (xxx 1355???) days is now applied to the time period between the Cedar Point convention on September 3 1922 and the London convention held May 1926.
Watchtower
1993 November 1 pp.10-12
"Counting from September 1922, this brings us to the late spring (Northern Hemisphere) of 1926. What happened during those 1,335 days? … In May 1926 at the London, England, convention, a resolution was adopted entitled "A Testimony to the Rulers of the World.""

This appears to be the same reasoning as used with the 1290 days. In this case is that there is about 1360 days between these two conventions. Consistent use of the convert lunar-to-solar-months-in-between method as applied to the 1290 day prophecy would make this prophecy over shoot the convention by a couple of months.

2300 days
1800’s
In the early 1800’s John Aquila Brown taught that the 2300 days of Daniel 8 ended in 1844. Studies in the Scriptures Series 2 p.240 discusses Russell’s understanding about 1844. Studies in the Scriptures Series 3 p.108 and Series 7 p.163 explains that the cleansing of the sanctuary at the end of the 2300 days was in 1846. The cleansing was understood to be when Storrs abandoned false doctrines.
1900’s
The current understanding of the 2300 days show just how strange Watchtower interpretation has become in a vigorous effort to find some 20th century application.
dp pp.177-179
26 For "the holy place" to be "brought," or restored, to what it should be, the 2,300 days must have begun when it previously was in the "right condition" from God’s standpoint. At the earliest, this was on June 1, 1938, when The Watchtower published part 1 of the article "Organization." Part 2 appeared in the issue of June 15, 1938. Counting 2,300 days (6 years, 4 months, and 20 days on the Hebrew calendar) from June 1 or 15, 1938, brings us to October 8 or 22, 1944. On the first day of a special assembly held at Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, U.S.A., on September 30 and October 1, 1944, the Watch Tower Society’s president spoke on the subject "The Theocratic Alignment Today." At the annual corporate meeting on October 2, the Society’s charter was amended in an effort to bring it as close to a theocratic arrangement as the law would allow. With the publication of clarified Biblical requirements, theocratic organization was soon more fully installed in the congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
27 While the 2,300 days ran their course during World War II, which began in 1939, the offering of "the constant feature" at God’s sanctuary was severely restricted because of persecution. In 1938 the Watch Tower Society had 39 branches supervising the work of the Witnesses worldwide, but by 1943 there were only 21. Increases in the number of Kingdom proclaimers were also small during that period.
28 As we have noted, during the closing months of World War II, Jehovah’s Witnesses reaffirmed their determination to magnify God’s rulership by serving him as a theocratic organization. It was with this objective that the rearrangement of their work and governing structure was initiated in 1944. In fact, The Watchtower of October 15, 1944, contained an article entitled "Organized for Final Work." It and other service-oriented articles of the same period indicated that the 2,300 days had ended and that "the holy place" was again in its "right condition."
2520 days – seven times

Daniel 4 contains the prophecy of seven times. This prophecy has also changed from a 19th century centric understanding to a 20th century one. During the 1800’s this prophecy was to signify an end in 1914. During the 1900’s this prophecy was change to signifiy a beginning in 1914.
In yet another method of calculation, seven times are explained as ‘lunar’ days converted to ‘solar’ years. Taking a ‘time’ to be equal to a 360 day lunar year, seven times are 2520 days, which become 2520 lunar years. However, from 607 B.C. to 1914 A.D. is 2520 solar years, so this prophecy is worked out as 1 lunar day equalling 1 solar year.
XBEHERE

Scholar,
Why dont you print the excerpts of this posting and show it to one of the elders in your congregation. I am sure they will lovingly instruct and correct any erroneous views that may have rubbed off on you by visiting this clearly apsotate website. Oh and let us know just how they reacted, ok?
crazies

Scholar,
Please answer me how the 70 yrs described in Jeremiah 25:12 can apply to anything other than the destruction of Babylon when you consider the following.
The society in the IT book lists the destruction of
*** it-1 p. 236 ***
In such glory it continued as the capital of the third world power until the night of October 5, 539 B.C.E. (Gregorian calendar), when fell before the invading Medo-Persian armies under the command of Cyrus the Great
Well in the NWT if you turn to Daniel 5:26- this is where the handwriting on the wall is.
(Daniel 5:26) 26 “This is the interpretation of the word: ME´NE, God has numbered [the days of] your kingdom and has finished it.
If you look at the marginal reference at the end of the verse it links the numbered days to Jer. 25:12. So the NWT is linking the numbering of days to the 70 year prophecy, and that the 70 years are over.
(Jeremiah 25:12) 12 “‘And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘their error, even against the land of the Chal·de´ans, and I will make it desolate wastes to time indefinite.
(Daniel 5:27-31) 27 “TE´KEL, you have been weighed in the balances and have been found deficient.
28 “PE´RES, your kingdom has been divided and given to the Medes and the Persians.”
Thus the nation of was no more, which would only happen when the seventy years were fulfilled.
29 At that time Bel·shaz´zar commanded, and they clothed Daniel with purple, with a necklace of gold about his neck; and they heralded concerning him that he was to become the third ruler in the kingdom.
30 In that very night Bel·shaz´zar the Chal·de´an king was killed 31 and Da·ri´us the Mede himself received the kingdom, being about sixty-two years old.
Belshazzar was killed that night—No more king of .
Two actions would be taken once the seventy years were fulfilled. According to the bible and the WTBS own bible the NWT, God putting the handwriting on the wall was fulfilling the Seventy Years.
In 539 BCE God called to account against (1) the king of and (2) against the nation of Babylon. Both were no more.
In 537 BCE there was no nation of and NO king of Babylon. In fact not only was Belshazzar killed that night, his father was also killed in 539 BCE.
Crazies
crazies

Scholar,
Please answer me another one, the 7 times prophecy doesn't make sense and doesn't follow one formula throughout the prophecy.

First they say (daniel book) that the 7 times are seven years, This is where it gets good, they say in prophecy a year is 360 days. So you have 7 years of 360 days or 2,520 also it should be a year for a day so you have 2,520 years. However they have already given the formula for prophetic years. 1 year in prophecy equals 360 days. so the 2,520 years, according to their own rules set forth in the beginning of the prophecy should be 2,520 years of 360 days each.

So to do the math on how that should correspond to common years you would take 2520 times 360 days then divide the total by 365.25 which equals 2,483.78.

So 2520 years in prophecy equals 2,483 years in real time.

So if they would follow their own guidlines the end of the 7 times should have been in 1877 not 1914. By their own rules. Please Explain.
Crazies
startingover

Scholar
I have been waiting for your reappearance to ask why you never responded to the questions raised by "A Chritian" on this thread:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/107943/1892380/post.ashx#1892380
MuadDib

scholar, your entire case rests on the acceptance of the Bible as infallible and directly inspired of God. That is not a sound basis for any evaluation of history. You have yet to produce any of the actual secular evidence that ought to exist to corroborate your claims. If the Biblical description of events was true, it would be directly reflected in the secular evidence. When it is possible through open analytical research to arrive at a completely opposite claim, it is idiotic to fall back on assertions that the Bible should simply be taken at face value because you happen to consider it a sacred text.
You are the worst kind of hypocrite, a disingenuous fool perpetrating lies and misconceptions of history. Historians do not arrive at conclusions through Satanic influence but through honest and open consideration of the evidence and what it tells them. The very fact that you have to resort to such inane tactics as associating historical research with religious apostasy underlines your total ignorance of this issue. Sickening.
M.J.

Not so fast MuadDib--this isn't a inspiration-vs.-non inspiration argument. That's exactly what Scholar wants to make it. Yet that in itself is an argument that vies for acceptance by playing the "rightness" and "loyalty" card, rather than simply presenting the truth of the whole matter.
Yet even coming from this angle, Scholar IMO fails to make it a case that hinges on biblical authority. Instead he presents a case that hinges on the interpretive authority of the WTS.

607

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