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by Zico 290 Replies latest jw friends

scholar

Lady Liberty
Yes I am a baptized Witness since 1964, first learning the Truth in 1958 and have been studying chronology since the early seventies.
Whether I count time for posting on this board is none of your business.
scholar JW
ellderwho

first learning the Truth in 1958 and have been studying chronology since the early seventies.

All those years and still no workable kings list, does not that simple fact raise any red flags for you? Its quite a stretch 625 to 539. Can you at least refer to, or produce a list from what you have available from the Organization for whom you taut as celebrated?
Ive yet to see you address this problem.
AuldSoul

In my opinion, the Queen Mother is the most amazing aspect about scholar's chronology. Even according to secular history, she was an astonishingly long-lived specimen given the average lifespan of the region during that period.
scholar's chronology makes her 20 years older than her already phenomenal age at death. I say this because the extra 20 years must come before 555 BC. This must be so, because she was still alive when her son began to rule.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul
stevenyc

Good morning scholar,
I was going to ask for your reply, ONCE AGAIN, but I realise that it would be to no avail.
You Stated: "Jehovah has provided sufficient information in His Word to enable sincere seekers of Truth to know the timing of the Lord's Return and its full significance. Accurate Bible chronology plays an important role in fulfilling this purpose. In this respect there is no need for third party information "
But, alas, you words, once again, as have been shown on innumerable occasions, are vacuous.
Why do you constantly put down the very scholars you are trying to defend, by making false statements.
It would be so easy to state the position of the Watch Tower, and how they reach their conclusions. So easy to explain the reasons for their chronology. So simplistic to provide a work flow. But, instead, your attempt to bolster their reasoning always ends up in knots and tangles of your own making.
steve
Lady Liberty

Scholar,
Thank you for your reply. It explains much!
L.L.
Leolaia

What alarms me about your criticism is that you have not got the article or have read it so I would have thought that humility would have guided you in not being hasty in making assertions when you have not read the material.

I have not made any assertions about it. I have told you three or four times I do not have it and would like to know more about it. Yet you have refused my requests for more information.
I disagree with your opinion that 2 Chronicles and Daniel represented a later reinterpretation of Jeremiah's prophecy as this smacks of higher criticism.
The date of Daniel and Chronciles-Ezra notwithstanding, even contemporaries can interpret a text differently. By dismissing the possibility out of hand by saying "this smacks of higher criticism," you reveal an a priori assumption of uniformitarianism between texts in what was compiled as the OT. Both Chronicles-Ezra and Daniel show a sabbatical understanding of the 70 years. If these works do not interpret Jeremiah as you say, please point to where in Jeremiah the author says anything about sabbatical years.
I queried about Applegate's approach because it is practically standard to analyse Ezra-Chronicles and Daniel as building on Jeremiah in their own ways. I would be quite surprised if Applegate takes the same position as you and construes Jeremiah, Chronicles-Ezra, and Daniel as viewing the 70 years in the same fashion. But rather than straightforwardly inform us of Applegate's position, you again refuse to clarify things.
You should get the article and read it through thoroughly before advancing wild concocted theories as Applegate's paper is the latest study thus far on the subject of the seventy years.
I have made no "wild concocted theories" about the paper at all. It is simply amazing how you misrepresent almost anything I write. I simply said I "wondered" whether Applegate took a similar view on the "70 years"; I made no claim at all about what Applegate actually wrote. Since you can't read and understand my own posts, I have to wonder if you are capable of understanding Applegate's paper. Is that why you have steadfastly refused to provide us here a summary of what the article is about? If it is the latest study on the subject, why not help us out here and give us a brief review of it.
Your exegeais of the seventy years in Jeremiah 25:11 is false and misleading because the seventy years apply to Judah alone consisting of a period of exile, servitude and desolation.
"These nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years".
I will let Jeremiah provide your rebuttal.
The texts nowhere state or indicate that the nations had to serve Babylon for seventy years
Hahahahaha, you're joking right?
Lady Liberty

Scholar,
I am ALWAYS amazed at how blind sighted your statements are. But now ESPECIALLY knowing you are a baptised Witness, this highlighted statement below blows me AWAY!
Your exegeais of the seventy years in Jeremiah 25:11 is false and misleading because the seventy years apply to Judah alone consisting of a period of exile, servitude and desolation.
How in the WORLD can you read Jeremiah 25:9 and not see the punishment was for the surrounding nations as well!! See this from the New World Translation itself!
9
here I am sending and I will take all the families of the north," is the utterance of Jehovah, "even [sending] to Neb·u·chad·rez´zar the king of Babylon, my servant, and I will bring them against this land and against its inhabitants and against all these nations round about; and I will devote them to destruction and make them an object of astonishment and something to whistle at and places devastated to time indefinite.
Notice it says: "against all these nations round about"?? Now look at the folowing verse:
10
And I will destroy out of them the sound of exultation and the sound of rejoicing, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the sound of the hand mill and the light of the lamp. 11 And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years."’
How long would all these nations SERVE the King of Babylon?? 70 YEARS!
I think most of your confusion is in the fact that you need to read the CONTEXT. Try reading the WHOLE account. That was the problem when I was a Witness too, and that is, I read only what the Society says applys. Instead of letting the scriptures tell the WHOLE account! Things will become quite clear if you would only try this!
L.L.
AlanF

Scholar pretendus said to MuadDib (the moron can't even manage to spell the poster's name properly):
: My purpose in posting on this board is simply to defend WT chronology to the best of my academic or scholastic ability. I care nought if I convince others of these views and I am not concerned now others view my postings. All that concerns me are the facts and nothing but the facts and I am staunch advocate for truth and not the lies and deception promoted by apostates and their sympathizers.
This paragraph is extremely disturbing because it shows how severely a cult can damage the minds of its adherents and turn them into complete morons. The writing contains extreme contradictions, of which the writer is completely unaware, which shows that, by common definitions, he is a moron. Let's examine this in some detail.
The moron seems to think that he has a good deal of academic and scholastic ability, as evidenced by his touting of his claimed credentials as a "scholar" in many posts to this board. But this is a standard illusion of many morons -- that they're far more capable than the facts demonstrate.
The moron also seems to think that his defective abilities allow him to competently defend Watchtower teaching on ancient chronology. Well, I suppose that's true to a large measure, since it's just another moron defending the moronic teachings of a pile of morons claiming to speak for God. Iron sharpens iron, no? But when the claimed bits of iron are really clay, what do we end up with?
The moron is entirely unaware that his claim not to be concerned with how others view his postings is entirely contradicted by his desire to "defend WT chronology to the best of" his ability. His emotional appeal is nil. The only thing he could possibly have left is an appeal to the intellect, and so logically, his postings must appeal to that. And yet he is unconcerned if his appeals to the intellect strike home. What better proof can there be that this poster is truly a moron?
The moron also claims that he is only concerned with the facts, and is a staunch advocate for truth. Well of course, anyone whose mind has been thoroughly subverted by JW teaching defines truth in a trivial sense: Whatever the Watchtower Society prints this month in some of its publications. Of course, when convenient, the moron also denies the evidence of his eyes in a most astounding way: when Watchtower teaching contradicts his own ideas, he discards them, even while declaring adamantly that the WT teachings are the absolute truth.
This moron is entirely incapable of answering the simplest of questions or dealing with the most elementary of challenges concerning Watchtower teachings about their claimed "Bible chronology":
What biblical proof is there that the Jews returned to Judah in 537 B.C.? (Answer: none)
What biblical evidence is there that the Jews returned to Judah in 537 B.C.? (Answer: none, but there is speculation that it took about 1 1/2 years from the time Cyrus issued his decree freeing the Jews to the time they arrived back in Judah)
What secular proof is there that the Jews returned to Judah in 537 B.C.? (Answer: none)
What proof can one find in Watchtower publications that the Jews returned to Judah in 537 B.C.? (Answer: none)
What biblical proof is there that the Jews returned to Judah in 538 B.C.? (Answer: none)
What biblical evidence is there that the Jews returned to Judah in 538 B.C.? (Answer: none, but there is speculation that it took about 2-4 months from the time Cyrus issued his decree freeing the Jews to the time they arrived back in Judah)
What secular proof is there that the Jews returned to Judah in 538 B.C.? (Answer: Josephus states that the temple was begun to be rebuilt in the 2nd year of Cyrus, which spanned 537-536 B.C. (March/April 537 to February/March 536), and Ezra 1-3 states that the temple foundations were laid in the 2nd month (April/May) Iyaar of the year after which the Jews returned to Judah. If the Jews returned to Judah in Tishri (September/October) 537, then the temple was begun to be rebuilt in the 2nd month of 536 B.C., namely, Iyaar (April/May). But this was Cyrus 3rd year, which contradicts what Josephus stated, and so the Jews' return in 537 is impossible according to Josephus. But if the Jews returned in September/October of 538 B.C., then the following "2nd month" of the year after their return was April/May of 537, which Josephus confirms. So the only available secular evidence contradicts the Watchtower's claims, and the biblical evidence is moot.
So the only actual proof we have of the year of the Jews' return to Judah comes from Josephus, who confirms that they returned in 538 B.C. Scholar pretendus simply ignores this, even while claiming that others of Josephus' statements (i.e., about the 70 years), which are demonstrably false, ought to be accepted as gospel. Can a better example of moronic scholastic claims be found?
Scholar pretendus has shown his proclivity for moronic braindeadness in various other ways:
2 Chronicles 36:20 clearly states that the Jews were servants to Nebuchadnezzar and his sons until the Persians began to reign. Without any argument, the Persians began to reign over Babylon in 539 B.C. when Cyrus' armies conquered the city of Babylon and eliminated its empire. Yet this moron claims that the Persians actually did not begin to reign for another two years -- until 537 B.C. when the Jews -- an insignificant part of the Persian empire -- returned to Judah. How incredibly stupid!
As many posters have shown over the years, and particularly in posts during the past few days, this moronic scholar pretendus cannot even read simple Bible passages with basic understanding. Jeremiah 25:11 clearly states that the Jews and the many nations surrounding them would serve Babylon for 70 years. Yet this moron brazenly claims that the text he can read with his very own eyes does not say what his eyes tell him it says. Indeed, his cult-fucked brain translates the words into something else. What, I do not know. What I do know is that this moron has fully succumbed to Orwellian mind-fuck, where when another person holds up five fingers, but it is necessary for the fucked victim to claim he sees four, he really sees four. So it is with the victims of the JW organization: the Bible can clearly state something, but when the Watchtower Society says it ain't so, it ain't so.
I could multiply the examples of scholar pretendus' overwhelming moral stupidity, but most for most readers this is just repetition ad nauseum.
AlanF
helppls

I don't usually comment on these types of threads, but I just couldn't pass this up:
Celebrated WT scholars have stated how the date of 607 is derived. It is derived not from some astromical date as you allege but from the date of 537 BCE which is establihed by means of accpted secular evidence which includes the astronomical evidence.

OK, so, if I understand correctly:
587 BCE as the date for the destruction of Jerusalem is WRONG WRONG WRONG because it is derived from astronomical data. 607 BCE is an infinitely better date because it is NOT derived from that BAD HORRIBLE astronomical data.
If 607 BCE is not derived from such GUT-WRENCHINGLY UNRELIABLE astronomical data, from where is it derived?
Just count back 70 years from 537 BCE.
And how do you get 537 BCE? From DIVINELY PRESERVED and UNDISPUTED astronomical evidence.
Yes indeed, I can see how those WT scholars are truly "celebrated". ======= Sir82-- He-he-he! I like that....soooooooooooooo fun--------neeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! LOL!!!! Scholar-- You should give it up! You're sounding more ridiculous with every key stroke!!! Why don't you go to an island far, far, really far away, and wait for your Armageddon there! Maybe take all of WTS leaders with you, please???
Lady Liberty

Scholar,
If your below statement is true, then I once again invite you to open A.K. Graysons book entitled Assyrian and Babylonian Chronicles. Page 100. Compare that to the Insight Book Volume #2 under Nebuchadnezzar page 480. What you will find there is most enlightening to say the least! Deception at its best! And by whom you may wonder? The Watchtower Society! So.. again, if your statement below is true, and indeed you area advocate for truth, you too will find this most appalling! I am curious, what your examination will find, since my last invitation for you to examine this went ignored. With all your libraries you claim to have access to, certainly even you, would have the ability to get your hands on this book.
I am staunch advocate for truth and not the lies and deception
L.L.

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