JW DECREASE IN AMERICA of 1.07%

by DannyHaszard 60 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    Dozy:

    show support from the scriptures that a big sing song with guitars , tambourines and virtually zero scriptural teaching constitutes worship.

    You make it too easy!!

    "All the Levites who were musicians - Asaph, Heman, Jeduthun and their sons and relatives - stood on the east side of the altar, dressed in fine linen and playing cymbals, harps and lyres. They were accompanied by 120 priests sounding trumpets. The trumpeters and singers joined in unison, as with one voice, to give praise and thanks to the LORD. Accompanied by trumpets, cymbals and other instruments, they raised their voices in praise to the LORD and sing: "He is good; his love endures forever." ' - 2 Chronicles 5:12,13 (NIV)

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost
    show support from the scriptures that a big sing song with guitars , tambourines and virtually zero scriptural teaching constitutes worship.

    P.S. Please check and see just how many modern christian songs are actually word for word from Scripture.

    Bit different from the chants in KH's that are reminiscent of the Red Army loyalty chants!

  • unclebruce
    unclebruce

    JW Dozy does not seem to know what "celebration" is.

    I am not a christian anymore* but I have attended many church services and know joy when I see it. There is very little joy in a Kingdom Hall except the universal sigh of relief that, at last, the meeting is over.

    unclebruce

    *Most JWs aren't christians. They recieve no training in the practice of basic christian values but some do so independantly.

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    Dozy, your answer is as from any other religion that thinks they are the only truth. All try to point to why they are it and everyone else is wrong. What you are doing is trying to point to your denomination as unique and worthy, forgetting the bible is not about be saved for what denomination you follow, but 'whom' you follow.

  • dozy
    dozy

    Ozzie - what is the difference between a musical service in your church and going to a Tom Jones (or maybe a Rolf Harris) concert? The singing of praises is an element of worship but the churches hit on this and make this virtually the whole worship experience.

  • moggy lover
    moggy lover

    Actually the door-to-door preaching activity of the JWs is the most inefficient and impractical way to spread the Gospel message today:

    In 2001-2002 it took 1.2 BILLION hours to bring in 133,000 into the org. Thats a colossal 9,022 hrs for each one, or 1 year and 11 days. The world has passed the WTS by, what with the electronic media, internet, casual visitation, other churches, like my Baptist church are finding far more efficient ways to do this work.

    But then, if it is so impractical, why persist in doing it? Ray Franz points out that the WTS uses it as a "loyalty test" for the R&F. In a religion that is supposedly "spiritual" in concept, they have the most physical of ways to measure ones devotion - foot slogging work. The efficiency or otherwise of the work is unimportant, as long as it involves all the R&F. A cruel irony, Franz points out, is that the "big wigs" in the org, like Jaracz, Barber, et al, have a hateful loathing of the preaching work and themselves never do it. Its a question of "don't do as we do, do as we say"

    Rutherford who instituted the door-to-door evangelizing, refused to do it himself. [Probably just as well, since he was rarely sober to do do anything] Knorr, and Fred Franz who came after were the same. Knorr never so much as filled in a report. Franz was far too busy musing about his own mystical relationship with "jehoover" to do any preaching.

    Cheers

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    Dozy:

    Let's cut to the chase, for it seems you're speaking from hearsay, when was the last time you were at a church service?

    If, as seems likely, you weren't, how the hell would you know? Really??

    BTW I answered you from the scriptures but you haven't spoken of the Bible at all yet - I wonder why?

  • Mary
    Mary
    Dozy (what an appropriate name) said: Wrong - other religions are so big because they demand absolutely nothing from their members in terms of commitment , belief and restraints on conduct. "Membership" simply is on the basis that this was their parent's religion - the longer they were going the more members they have.

    And the same deal goes with the Witnesses. I was a third generation Witness. I went because I was born into it, as did my parents. It's certainly not a religion I would ever have joined voluntarily. So how is this any different that your statement above that 'Membership simply is on the basis that this was their parent's religion'??

    Why are there more Catholics than any other Christian religion?

    Um, because they've been around for over 1700 years?

    I see thousands of them every fortnight when Glasgow Celtic play their home games - their conduct , attitude , language and hatred for other fans is a sight to behold.

    Oh pu-lease........you want to talk about conduct unbecoming a Christian? In the Organization, I've seen pioneers who were dealing drugs (in order to support their way of life pioneering), I've seen elders commit adultery with women half their ages, I've known elders and MS's who go to strip clubs after the meeting on Thursday night. I've seen elderettes drink vodka at 9:00am in the morning before they go out in Service and I've seen Witness parents beat the holy hell out of their kids. Oh, and in case you're wondering----none of the abover were disfellowshipped. So don't try telling us how "unchristian" all other religions are, because the Witnesses are no different.

    From a personal perpective , for the last twenty years , no "Christian" ( other than an occasional Mormon) has EVER preached or witnessed individually to me - at home , in work , on the street , on the phone ,anywhere.

    So what? Jesus never preached door to door. Neither did his disciples. It's a myth invented by the WTS in order to try and justify making knocking on doors a requirement for salvation. The one scripture they use that says "...I did not hold back from telling you any of these things publically or from house to house", is not a reference to knocking on doors, but it is referring to the meetings that the first century christians had----in their private homes (as they had no public buildings yet where they could meet). Even if they had gone door to door, it would have only been because that was a way to preach back then, due to lack of technology. Today, there is TV, the radio, the internet, mass mailing----so why does the Governing Body insist that their members continue to preach using an ineffective, ancient method like knocking on doors? Especially when it's not required.

    You will also know from when you were a witness that hardly ever does a Christian make any effort to express their beliefs or engage in any meaningful scriptural discussion

    Obviously, you don't know very many people outside the Borg. I have meaningful discussions with many of my co-workers on a regular basis. These people are Catholic, Protestant, Lutheran, etc. We all "express our beliefs" and no one tells the rest that if they don't join their particular religion, that God's going to strike them dead.

    Some local churches have brought in the singers and guitars and a few more go along for the big sing-song , but it is far removed from Christian worship in any way.

    LOL! And where in the bible does it condemn using musical instruments in worship? I don't know how old you are, but I remember years ago at the Circuit and District Assemblies, they had entire orchestras there. Was that "far removed from Christian worship" like you claim? Oh, I forgot----those rules don't apply to this Organization----just to everyone else.

    You're pathetic.

  • dozy
    dozy

    "In the Organization, I've seen pioneers who were dealing drugs (in order to support their way of life pioneering), I've seen elders commit adultery with women half their ages, I've known elders and MS's who go to strip clubs after the meeting on Thursday night. I've seen elderettes drink vodka at 9:00am in the morning before they go out in Service and I've seen Witness parents beat the holy hell out of their kids. Oh, and in case you're wondering----none of the abover were disfellowshipped."

    Yeh , right. I'll nominate you for the Booker prize for 2006!

    "You're pathetic." Thanks for the summary - you ex-JW "Christians" are such delightful people. I just can't wait to leave & join in loving association with you.

  • metatron
    metatron

    Dozy, your blanket statement about other religions is false.

    Telling people that other religions demand nothing from their flocks is a lie and you know it.

    Mormons - and many fundamentalists - make all sorts of requirements of their people, including forms of shunning.

    Other religions are growing rapidly because, they offer support to their people - WHILE THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY

    IS BUSY TEARING DOWN WHAT PATHETIC LITTLE INFRASTRUCTURE OF SUPPORT THEY PROVIDED!

    No food service at assemblies - cheap paperback books - less literature - fewer Awakes - reduced writing and research...

    The old men in Brooklyn are too busy downsizing and printing limp 'cut n' paste' magazines to notice that Jehovah's Witnesses

    are getting tired and burning out. They are selfish and greedy to control others.

    metatron

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