How many left of 144,000?

by annalice 66 Replies latest jw friends

  • heathen
    Is anyone aware if this teaching (that some of the remnant will remain alive until Armageddon) has been replaced?

    sounds the same as I've always heard .It doesn't make any sense compared to what the bible says about the 144k . Revelation clearly says the 144k are the first resurrection , meaning they are dead and enter the city of new jerusalem thru the 12 pearl gates with the names of the 12 tribes ( which are different than the original 12 tribes) so this does not mean they are all jewish . Revelation 20:4-6 I believe it more likely that the final test will be just as when moses went up the mountain for 40 days for the GC to see if they uphold their end of the bargain . After all it will be 1000 yrs under the direct rulership with God .

  • M.J.

    Makes sense they'd say that, in light of there being so many still on earth! How can you create a sense of urgency by suggesting that 8,500 still have to die before the end comes?

  • blondie

    I used to wonder that, MJ, and thought that perhaps God would make them die prematurely like the WTS teaches that God did to Enoch.


  • james_woods

    Well, working over your last comment M.J. - maybe they are trying to make it look less urgent because they are not so sure of themselves r.e. time of the end and remaining annointed anymore.

    It would seem to me that of those 8500 there can only be three "classes" of annointed in 2006 - working by their own twisted logic as near as I can decipher it:

    type one: the "legitimate" sealed class - they were witnesses old enough to be baptized pre 1935 (the sealing) and have remained so and are presumably free from sin and have thus not fallen away. I would say that these need to be someone born about 1914 so that they could have been 21 by 1935. Note that you could hardly be more than about 10 years older than that and still be around. Nathan's chronology research says that this group should be diminished almost to vanishing by now. You also have to believe that there were at least 9000 of the total annointed in 1935 who were only 21 or so - ???

    type two: the "legitimate-replacement" class - assuming that a few "legitimate" sealed ones messed up and stayed that way until death; maybe a very few could get picked to replacement status (to themselves) stand the test. I say that it is a great stretch of imagination to claim that any significant percentage could fall into this category. Otherwise, almost all the survivors from type one have sinned themselves into oblivion - and surely this would have been an obvious scandal which could not have been hidden.

    type three: the "bogus" class - if you are not type one or type two your presence in the 8500 count cannot be explained.

    And, yet this number has gone down by only a few hundred over the past 20 years.

    To me, the implications are obvious. Wonder if they secretly are to the GB also?


  • eyeslice

    There is another aspect of this discussion and that has to do with the 1914 generation.
    The selecting of the remaining 'annointed/144,000'was supposed to have been completed by the mid 1930's. However, hand-in-hand with this doctrine was that the 1914 generation would see the end of this system. In my book, the 1914 generation is not the few lowly foot soldiers of WW1, a very few still are live today, but the polticians and generals that took an active part in the war. These are long gone!
    The WTB&TS changed the 1914 generation doctrine in 1995 to a vague generation who would be alive at the time of the end but they have never addressed the somewhat embarrassing 144,000/1935/never diminishing numbers doctrine.

  • heathen

    I would look at it like the bibles says to look at ---- The 144k die as martyrs . No symbolic death to cover the fact that none of the WTBTS ever lived up to that .

    I think even the WTBTS has stated that the GC has holy spirit which in turn means they are anointed . I would still only count men in the number and in no way support that women will reign as kings and priests with christ for the millenium . The apostle Paul wrote that women would be "kept safe" because of faith, child bearing and sanctification provided they have soundness of mind .No promise of heavenly rulership . 1 timothy 2:15 .

  • gumby

    Seems to me like the simple solution for them would be to quit printing the numbers of the annointed that are left.


  • heathen

    I agree gumby . The people that partake are not all the real thing anyway as they even state but it looks like just another numbers game with them . There's no scripture that says the GC can't participate anyway and this thing was really supposed to be an actual church dinner and concluding with the ceremony . Another thing I've noticed is that people did this in their homes and not at church like the jews did passover , the apostle Paul says if you don't eat and drink at it just stay home anyway. I think the way the j-dubs do it is a form of idolotry , they act like the food is too holy to eat and drink or something so just pass it around . Who the hell want's a hundred people playing with their food anyway ? It all just adds up to a bunch of unfounded dogma they claim they don't use .

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    James Woods suggested that a comparison of the anointed with another genration of 1914 - WORLD WAR ONE VETERANS - might prove instructive. So I contacted the US Dept. of Veterans Affairs and requested some data. They sent it to me by snail mail, and I put it into a spreadsheet for YOUR viewing pleasure.

    First a graph with a linear Y axis:


    and then the same data represented on a graph with a logarithmic Y axis:


    Once again, a picture is worth 144,000 words!

  • stillAwitness

    I wondered about this during the WT study today. Yes,you guys are right. Eventually "new light" will be introduced definetly in the next 10 years (Dear God, I'll be 30 then! ) What is it about China anyway? Anyone Chineese here can explain why their country has the lowest pop. of DUBS? Sounds like my kind of place! Perhaps its cause of thei advance technology and strong emphasis in education.

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