"Some" of the annointed are not yet "sealed" Huh?

by gumby 42 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Mary

  Their whole reasoning is ridiculous. One one hand, they say that this calling was sealed in 1935:

  *** w69 12/15 p. 756 "Make Disciples"—Till When? ***It is likewise evident that the vision of the "great crowd" (Rev. 7:9) was given to John the apostle after he had the vision of the 144,000 sealed spiritual Israelites. Hence this vision would apply now, specifically since 1935, when the sealing of the 144,000 spiritual Israelites appears coming to its close.

  *** re chap. 19 p. 116 Sealing the Israel of God ***

  here on earth the testing and sifting of the remaining spirit-begotten sons of God must go on until Jesus and his accompanying angels will have firmly implanted the seal ‘in the forehead’ of all of these, identifying them conclusively, irrevocably, as tried and faithful "slaves of our God." That seal then becomes a permanent mark. Evidently, when the four winds of tribulation are unleashed, all of spiritual Israel will have been sealed in finality, even though a few will still be alive in the flesh.

  So on one hand, they're saying that the calling was basically sealed in 1935. On the other hand, they say that the sealing isn't complete yet. The reason I believe they don't want to say that the annointed who are still alive are "sealed" is because if they do, then maybe those annointed might start slacking off in Service. I mean, if you're going to heaven anyway, why bother? Plus, this religion has never taught that we are saved by faith----they teach that we can only be saved through works and this is a great way to keep everyone----even the annointed----in line.

  Their doctrine of the four winds being held back until the 'final sealing' takes place, gives them an unlimited length of time to toy with. If the Big A isn't here in 30 years, they can say "I guess the final sealing isn't complete". They can also say this in a hundred years time.........the whole thing is bullshit anyway.......these guys do not determine who's going to heaven and who's not----that's up to God.

  Now Gumbers, I answered the calling. Where's my fur coat that you promised me?
• 

  oldflame

  I am curious about something on this subject. Did the members decide they were of the anointed before 1914 or was it previous to then ? If members decided they were of the anointed after 1914 then can we assume that in 2014 they will all be dead ? Can we expect that 2014 will be when the GB will make their changes to their doctrine ?
• 

  gumby

  The reason I believe they don't want to say that the annointed who are still alive are "sealed" is because if they do, then maybe those annointed might start slacking off in Service.

  It could lessen some hours, but I don't know that only 8,000 publishers with a declining service report would make that big of a dent. Most of the old farts don't put in much time as it is.

  Their doctrine of the four winds being held back until the 'final sealing' takes place, gives them an unlimited length of time to toy with. If the Big A isn't here in 30 years, they can say "I guess the final sealing isn't complete".

  Now this one makes sense. It's also a good thing they have newer and younger ones partaking. If the numbers ever did go to zero, they'd have a hard time explaining why armageddon isn't here yet.

  Here's that coat. Just take it from her
• 

  Honesty

  What if a born again christian smokes weed and "lives" with his girlfriend? Is he gonna die even though he was born again?

  Gumby

  I don't know. Aren't you glad you ain't Jesus and have to face hard decisions.
• 

  BluesBrother

  was confused even as a book study conductor but fudged my way through. When nobody understands, you move on to the next paragraph.

  You and me both, Gumby ! Blame it on a lack of faith and trust in the F & D S if they cannot get it..

  Re the anointed ? I have heard the expression "The real anointed" from those who claim to be in the know and have heard these from Bethel. They imply that a lot of the partakers are kidding themselves. But are not a couple of the newer members of the Governing Body in their late 40's or 50's? So I guess claiming the "calling" did not harm their Theocratic Career.

  BTW I always understood that were 2 sealings. A first general sealing and then a personal sealing at the point of death when they had proved themselves "faithful unto death"
• 

  RubaDub

  I don't have my Watchtower CD handy but I do recall the article a number of years back that made specific mention about the reason why there are still a significant number of those who profess to be of the heavenly class (around 8,500 at the time) here on earth.

  I remember it mentioned that upon their death, they will receive their heavenly reward of immortality. However, not all will be part of the 144,000. They go though an evaluation period for a number of years and must pass several tests prior to actually becoming a full-fledged member of the 144,000. The article did not elaborate on the specifics of the tests but we would reasonably conclude that they involved intellignece, coordination, leadership and inter-personal skills.

  Since the number is capped at 144,000 and so few vacancies are left, they are now much more selective in the acceptance process. The article used the example of secular colleges and universities acceptance policies. If you apply early, it is much easier to get accepted than if you wait until the last minute. The university knows it has a large number of seats to fill and will try to get the major recruiting done early and be far more selective when there are a limited number of seats.

  So those back in the first century who were part of the Christian congregation were automatically accepted as part of the 144,000 as were most in the early 1900's. However, as time progressed, they have been far more selective on who will be part of the composite 144,000 group.

  The article also mentioned that those that do not become part of the 144,000 will still be involved in theocratic work in the heavens. However, they will be relegated to non "king and priestly" duties. They will likely work in administrative and secretarial activites for the 144,000 and generally take care of the more routine daily activites, travel arrangements, maintenance, etc.

  I will find the article on my CD later.

  Rub a Dub
• 

  gumby

  BTW I always understood that were 2 sealings. A first general sealing and then a personal sealing at the point of death when they had proved themselves "faithful unto death"

  Hey fellow confused book study conductor....lol

  You probably DID hear of "two sealings". The witnesses always have a spiritual meaning, or 'vauge' sentence or two in a watchtower, regarding non-sensical doctrine such as the one we are discussing right now.

  If you read the Revelation Book closely ...chapter 19 entitled " the sealing of Israel", you'll see how they say the sealing is a guarantee, or token, or promise...since pentecost that ones recieve.......when their spirit "bears witness with gods spirit" and NOT when they are "tried and tested".......although they ALSO make reference to the latter as being a requirement.

  They say it BOTH ways......hence the confusion of guys like you and I tryin to be good loyal book study conductors

  I don't remember if they spoke of "two sealings" in print. Perhaps our beloved human watchtower cd BLONDIE can find it. ..*hints real hard for blondies help*

  Gumby
• 

  gumby

  Hey rubby-dubby....sorry I missed your post before I posted

  However, as time progressed, they have been far more selective on who will be part of the composite 144,000 group.

  Amen bro!

  ...and....... isn't it ridiculous that "they" are the ones WHO decide WHO qualify?

  Yes, the society did tighten up on the qualifications as to WHO are worthy to make up any lacking number amoung the 144,000.

  They use words such as " many many years of long faithful service", or...." most likely would be filled by those who lived when the sealing was complete in 1935 that was worthy but wasn't chosen since the position was filled".

  They never make reference to a modern day dub becoming one of the annointed, rather they hint it would be an "old timer".

  Gumby
• 

  integ

  Do you guys really think that God wanted us to have to sift through all this stuff to find His real message?

  Two things are all one needs to "save" themself IMO;

  1) Unconditional Love

  2) Unconditional forgiveness.

  I'm having a real hard time with the whole forgiveness thing when it comes to the witnesses. It's hard to listen to some jackass Circuit Overseer give a mind controlling talk without wanting to run up to the podium and choke the hell out of him.

  Obviously I need some work. But if I can get over this hatred of the lying, conniving, double-speaking, witnesses, I think I will be able to find true peace.

  To me they are the biggest liars in the world.
• 

  gumby

  To me they are the biggest liars in the world.

  Yeah but......they are sincere liars integ.

  I feel like you do in wanting to biatch slap idiotic speakers who talk crap but, maybe we can just flatten their tires or sumpin.

  Gumtirepoker