The fallacy of 'spirituality'.

by nicolaou 75 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Narkissos

    I'm personally quite wary about the term "spirituality" which often, I think, amounts to "fuzzy or shameful religiosity". I am a religious person. I enjoy myth, I enjoy ritual, I even enjoy some theology. I think a sort of "faith" (albeit devoid of any definite "object") is an integral part of my subjectivity. Yet my imagination has no room for "god(s)," "spirit(s)" or "hereafter" anymore in any realistic or objective sense: intellectually I have become a critic.

    My personal "religion" has moved, or rather restricted itself, to a metaphorical or poetical level. On that level it makes sense as it always did. What's relatively new to me is that it makes sense only on that level. Which doesn't meant that it is any less important.

  • Brigid

    I think I kind of agree with you, Narkissos. It's like in my intellectual box, I think that perhaps we're all hairless apes with only enough consciousness to grope about for some meaning to our drab lives. But in my spiritual box, I just "know" that there is more---for me.

    Don't know if it's supernatural. I've certainly had experiences that reach beyond what science as I know it can explain. I feel a very real feminine side of the Universe in my ritual/religious/spiritual experience. I have felt Her in me and around me.


  • anewme

    I feel that people can believe whatever they want to. But dont try to proselytize your version of truth.
    Its like trying to sell me the air I am breathing freely already and I resent it very much.

    For me the greatest teachers are those who never discuss religion at all but who seem to live a certain spirituality that affects all their dealings and interactions and behaviour.

    Quoting Paul and John and others seems like puny spirituality to me now. Somehow pathetic.

    Better to quote yourself and develop your own conscience on weighty matters of life.

  • tetrapod.sapien

    hey nic,

    nice write up.

    technically, i am pretty much on the same page as you. i keep searching though, because there are just so many "spiritual" people out there, i would like to know what they are talking about. it's funny, but even as a JW for 20 years, i didn't experience anything that was supernatural, or any feelings of "spiritual" awe that could not be explained more parsimoniously as brain chemicals tricking my mind.

    so, technically i am a reductionist and a materialist.

    but i keep sort of searching anyways. almost for fun and kicks. you know, buddhist meditation, praying to satan (i figure if he is who the bible thumpers says he is, he would like to get in contact with me, lol [nothing yet]), going on haunted house tours. trying to think about "spirituality", although people say it is something you rather "feel". whatever, this little atheist just can't figure it out. i still can't find anything traditionally spiritual to latch onto, or any reason that i should, apart from what LT mentioned about mental health, which i find also extremely ironic, but not really quite an excellent enough reason, in my books. or maybe "crazy without god" IS my spirituality.

    or, perhaps, i already worship the poetry.

    i would like to have some magic in my life. believe it or not, i would actually *like* to be wrong about being an atheist. i have become sort of addicted to smashing personal paradigms, and atheism would be fun too. but it seems pretty smash proof. i would like to think there is some magic out there, but i am not going to let myself go there without some good reason either. just because, you know, there are such large numbers of "spiritual people" on this little ball of dirt, compared to the small number of ones who don't mind going it alone. bachelors from traditional "spirituality".

    let's see, i keep talking in circles here. how about some of the things that make me feel a sense of the spiritual?

    • building a little well constructed fire of driftwood by the ocean, while the sun sets, for a woman who let me kidnapp her. she pours the wine with a smile.
    • a little morbier cheese and bread, and a little earthy saint chinain at my favorite little french restaurant, le pichet, as people walk by in the rain outside.
    • Anywhere I Lay My Head, by Tom Waits
    • drinking bourbon in a rickety little twin engine plane flying through the coulds above the mountains and writing poetry.
    • laying there in bed after making love, smoking a cigarette, letting all the demons out with someone who really wants to meet them, and listening to ray lamontagne and realizing that the last time i had been that free and happy was in the summer i graduated from highschool.
    • looking at hubble space photos while i go through the house and rip up all of my atlases.

    and there are so many more, but i wouldn't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable.

    perhaps my spirituality is about the simple deliniation between embracing the trembling and lucid subjectivity of a moment, as opposed to the objectivity of where an experience fits in the universe outside of myself.


  • anewme


    You are a delight my friend!

    Keep searching and keep posting. Tell us when you find it.

    After this huge personal war I have been waging between my heart and organized religion

    I have given up chasing after the ever elusive God Jehovah.

    Maybe like the butterfly He will find me?

    In the meantime I will set my heart upon the beauty of life where I find it.

  • Golf
  • Golf

    Greetings Nic, how about teaching me how to play golf?


  • freedomlover

    cool. I read your original post this morning Nic and wanted to type something but didn't want to seem like a total jerk for dumping on "spirituality." lol.
    I agree that the term "spirituality" is so undefinable. It's different to all people. ah yes, the infamous search that all of us ex dubbers seem to NEED to do. It's funny to me how some of us have to search so damn hard that it - the search itself - distracts us from what we were originally searching for.

    lately, I look at it this way. we are such specks of dirt. no body "up there" gives a rats ass about us. just live your life the way you need to. there are days for me when it's all too much. the not having answers. then I have to remember that NO ONE has any answers. just ideas. some more believable than others. But heh, we all know people are going to believe what they want to believe no matter what. that doesn't make any one of us better than the other.

    so in the steps of TS here's my spirituality these days.

    - art.

    - music.

    - space.

    - the smell of my childrens hair when they sit on my lap.

    - laying in bed and dreaming.

    - reading.

    - a good bottle of wine, some good food, and sitting around a table with my friends and having great conversation.

    - some of my spirituality also involves sexual things....but I'm not going to go there....use your imaginations.

    thanks for this thread NIC. thank god it's not another "who's hot?!" thread! LOL!

  • Gretchen956
    There is no such thing as "conversion" to atheism because it is not a belief system. It is the 'abandonment' of a previous belief system that one has found to be in error.

    Ah the word belief... Lets play semantics here. Here's what I discovered in the dictionary. I think its all in what we understand "belief" or "believe" to mean. "Belief system" is one definition, but it is only one definition. I think you'll find atheism falls under number 2 on belief and encompasses 1 and 2 in the believe definition below. Belief: 1. The act or condition of placing trust or confidence in a person or thing (faith). 2. Mental acceptace of the truth or actuality of something (science). 3. Something believed or accepted as true, esp a tenet or set of beliefs. Believe: 1. To accept as true or real. 2. To have confidence in or trust. 3. To expect or suppose. 4. To have faith, esp religious faith. 5. To have faith or confidence (ie in doctor's ability). 6. To have confidence in the truth, value, or existence of somthing. So, I believe that athiesm is a belief in science and in the material world being all there is. This belief does also encompass the rejection of the idea of god, but it also places trust and belief in science. I'm not arguing that science isn't truth or that you should not believe in it, but just pointing out that it isn't an absence of belief as Kid tried to assert, its actually a different set of beliefs around there being no supernatural higher power, around the body dying, no afterlife, evolution, etc., etc. etc. So, when I spoke about people proselatizing (damm how is that word spelled??) I was speaking of talking them/us into abandoning a belief in a higher power based on your arguments, and then replacing those beliefs with other beliefs that you espouse, such as no higher power, such as the material universe being all there is, etc. Still another belief system. Just not in a god. And I'm still not buying! Sherry

  • LittleToe

    Amen, so mote it be!

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