I think Islam is a peaceful religion...

by Pleasuredome 40 Replies latest jw friends

  • Forscher

    Muadib said:

    That is incorrect. The Islamic Empire, in the sense of a political entity governed by an Islamic warrior elite, was certainly spread through conquest as the Arabs took down the Byzantines and Persians, who were so busy fighting one another to exhaustion that they were unprepared for a fresh onslaught from a more dynamic group of people. But Islam itself could hardly have been spread by conquest; the conquering armies were much, much too small to enforce such a young faith over the very well-established religions of Byzantium and Persia. In fact, the newly subject populations, being "Peoples of the Book," were allowed to keep their respective faiths subject only to certain restrictions (like paying special taxes and being unable to build a church or temple higher than a mosque). Only gradually did these populations convert to Islam, and then only because the new faith seems to have offered them a message lacking in their established traditions. Significantly, Islam was spread to sub-Saharan Africa and Indonesia (where more Muslims live than anywhere else) via commercial contacts, not warfare: people chose this religion willingly more often than they did not.

    If you want to hear about warfare and forced conversions, then check out Christianity, which was confined to the urban centers of the Mediterranean basin for centuries until Germanic warrior kings, setting up their own polities on the ruins of the Roman Empire, started forcing their subjects to convert (a task made easier, again, by the relative intellectual sophistication of Christianity as compared to their own pagan traditions). Often these warlords themselves were only converted spontaneously, in the heat of a losing battle, and considered Christianity a kind of magic that would help them keep winning their wars.

    You point about the Islamic armies not being able to force Islam on the populace would make sense to those ignorant of the Muslim practice of Dhiminism, or forcing those who are not Muslim into the edges of society by imposing heavy taxes on the "Dhiminis", or non muslims, and otherwise making them into third-class citizens of Dar al-Islam. Those populations "gradually converted" in order to escape the oppression and burdens they bore as non Muslims, not because of any lack in their previous faiths.
    As for your statement about warfare and Christians, you totally ignored my earlier statement about Christianity not embracing violence until after it became the religion of the Roman empire. That is a fact of history you can't get around. The Christians of later eras that you mention were converts to a religious institution which had already turned it's back on the nonviolent message of the early church. Your rebuttal hardly overturns my observation that Islam embraced violence from its very beginings rather than learned it from "Christians", as the person I was rebutting implied.

  • still angry
    still angry

    Religion is the tool of choice for all conquerors, war mongers and general trouble makers. It is the easiest way to inflame confused, weak and/or ignorant people in any culture of any socioeconomic background. It is always evident when the actions of these people are always at odds with the fundamental beliefs of religions that are based on "loving your brother", "treating others as you would be treated", and instead focus solely on a passage or verse that speaks of retribution in order to back their ideology.

    In the case of Islam, Jihad is not Islam's fundamental belief. Islam is basically split into two theories, one peace loving and one based in destruction. It is no different than Christianity, or any other major religions that have also been broken off into sects that harm others rather than help them. Look even at the case of JW's: They will speak to you with honey dripping from their mouths and will most cruelly inflict damage where they can to control and manipulate people. It is easy to get pulled into this duality, and Islam is quite adaptable to this form of mind control. It is cynically humorous that people cannot see the truth that is before them as in the case of this particular sign.

  • Rabbit


    They didn't learn violence from the Christians, they learned it all on their own. The pattern of violence was well established long before Islam encountered Christendom. It is a fact of history that violence did not come to mark Christianity for hundreds of years until it became a state institution. The same can't be said of Islam. Mohammad embraced it from the very begining.

    No, they didn't 'learn it on their own', remember this Gawd called Jehovah ? Remember that the Old Testament was accepted by Judaism first, then Christians, then Islam.

    Jehovah is the "God of Armies..." The Warrior Gawd. He taught them (his followers) his values...vengence, jealousy, violence against innocent and 'guilty' alike.

    This is the same Gawd that would condemn generations of INNOCENT mankind to death, disease & war, because Adam & Eve screwed up...by stealing a damn piece of fruit !!!!!!

    If a human judge imposed a punishment or sentence upon the offspring of people guilty of crimes -- that would be considered barbaric, unfair, inhumane. The Bible God IS that way...we call human behavior like that -- psychotic .


  • Agape_24

    I am not big fan of Islam .

    GOD bless Denmark, Iceland and Norway ;)

  • KW13

    GUYS GUYS...you've missed something here. This guy is clever, see how he directly contradicts himself with that sign. TSK! surely no one would guess how clever he is.

  • uninformed


    A Tleilaxu face dancer? Throw me a bone on that one.

    Islam is a horrible, harsh, stupid, violent religion. They kill each other, infidels, their women, anyone that happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Maybe we need a new definition of "peaceful".

  • mustang

    Truly true, KW13: Behead... violent; it IS an oxymoron


  • GermanXJW

    I have some feeling this has just been made up.

    The Islam world is shown some information about how their religion is allegedly persecuted in Denmark and other European countries.

    In fact, there were some cartoon in one Danish paper, not representative for Denmark or Europe as a whole. Some of the information were faked, and some false cartoons were shown.

    The European world is shown how violent Islam. You see some people being violent, but they must not be representative for Islam. And who knows how they were made do these things?

  • daniel-p
  • Pleasuredome

    like this one?

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