Once again I am glad I was raised in Sweden!!!!!
Advice is to Beat the kids......still!
Again, I stand by my story and will not have it fluffed away as "all my parent's fault" as if they were acting soley outside of organizational norms. I was beaten to the point of urinating upon myself in a service car group because I INTERRUPTED SERVICE with my impendidng bathroom needs and did not have the foresight at 5 years of age to go before. This was witnessed and condoned by the other Jehovah's Witnesses in the car group as they happily continued to preach at the next door.
Now, I will speak my truth. I will speak it again and again and again and again as long as people attempt to invalidate the horrendous treatment of children at the hands of many of their Jehovah's Witness parents. I will not have my experiences invalidated as isolated incidences. I and my peers were repeatedly and systematically beaten at meetings. After I became a parent (so it's not just antiquated experiences) I was encouraged to spank my 4 MONTH old because "she knew what she was doing" interrupting the meetings. Now--I'm happy that due to external pressure and the horrible "witness" that typical JW parenting causes that they are "tweaking their language", perhaps changing policy but this is the truth: Child abuse IS a problem within the organization. They would not feel the need to address it if it were not.
""Again, I stand by my story and will not have it fluffed away as "all my parent's fault"""
That's fine. I am merely presenting what my personal observations are. I was not beaten, my brothers and sisters were not beaten. I do not remember any "beatings" occurring at the Kingdom Hall.
Society as a whole has a different attitude to physical punishment today than it did 40+ years ago. Teachers were permitted to spank students in school then, now they can go to jail.
"" This was witnessed and condoned by the other Jehovah's Witnesses in the car group as they happily continued to preach at the next door.""
Then shame on them. Just because some did and still do condone such actions by others does not mean it's condoned by all. As an aside however, if they were at door preaching, how did they "witness and condone" this action?
I think one of my father's finest moments was at a District convention, when he told a "brother" that he would take the belt he was using to beat on a young boy away from him and start hitting him with it. The time period was early 70's. He was even an Elder at the time.
Sorry for the way you were treated. It was wrong and shame on your parents and those with them for allowing and condoning such unbiblical punshiment.
But then, you'd have to be a real 'sicko' to sit quietly and calmly with your child and explain 'why' you have to beat them first.
my mother did that everytime she beat me. and i say ''beat'' because i don't think hitting your child with a leather belt 20 times (she counted out loud) exactly qualifies as a ''spanking'' or a ''smack''.
it was really great when she would start missing my ass and hitting my back. if i cried out...she'd keep going till i stopped. she always liked to make me pull my pants down afterwards and look in the mirror so i could see what i made happen to myself.
ah the joys of childhood.
Society as a whole has a different attitude to physical punishment today than it did 40+ years ago. Teachers were permitted to spank students in school then, now they can go to jail.
This was NOT 40 years ago--I'm not quite that old--really Let's say it was....30 years ago (I'm not saying it was or was not but....) how do you explain the sister encouraging me to spank on several occasions my 4month to a year old--much later? It's barbaric.
I feel as though you keep attempting to fluff away my experiences. You say shame on my parents? This was sanctioned by the society. I do not want to have to keep repeating myself. I feel like I'm on trial (like a good defense attorney for a man accused of rape will feign the utmost sympathy towards the victim while deflecting from his clients' guilt). I don't think you feel sorry for me. I think you wish I'd shut up and turn away like a good little mousey and stop telling my story. Well, I won't. I'm not usually an alarmist. I do not call for the downfall of the WTBTS. I do not even say that JW's are braindead. I'm always respectful but I will not let anyone say that my experience was not valid and that my experience was isolated. This was sanctioned by not only a service car group but a kingdom hall, not just a kingdom hall but an entire religion. It was reiterrated to me through what I heard from the pulpit and in writing that it was my parents right--nay THEIR DUTY to punish me thus for my various infractions.
I stand behind my story and assertion--mine was NOT an isolated incident. Child abuse is a problem within the organization and would still be without outside pressure. My parents did not act as lone lunatics.
The abuse was common to myself and my peers and later I witnessed it up until I left in the late 90's
The abuse was sanctioned.
The abuse was ADVISED.
Je accuse, WTBTS!
I will continue to assert this as long as you keep attempting to direct blame away from the source: The Society and culture that is Jehovah's Witnesses, my parents were merely channels of what was being sanctioned from the higher ups. You were actually looked down on if you did NOT spank kids into submission.
I hope you did not read my post as dismissing your experience. Far from it - I took a lot of flack from elders, older sisters in the congregation (attempting to do their duty and "recall me to my sense"), and my (mentally unbalanced but VERY theocratic!) now ex-husband. At various times I was told that I should not breastfeed my babies "on demand" because they would manipulate me..."they know how to get their own way" apparently at less than 6 months old....should not pick up and hold my babies so often, lest I spoil them....should start spanking early (and often!) lest I become too soft on them....and on and on and on.
I chose to ignore most of this wise counsel, having looked long and hard at the results of the excellent childrearing practices being pushed on me LOL! It may have helped that I was not reared a JW, and grew up in the UK (albeit during a time when spanking was considered normal). I was aware of other children in our KH who were punished harshly and had unreasonable (considering their age and developmental stage) demands placed on them - but given the prevailing climate and the fact that some of the parents of these kids were elders did not feel able to intervene.
I feel a good deal of guilt over the years I spent subjecting my children to meetings, field service and assembly attendance. I resent the years that we lost to the borg, and am relieved that none of them has any interest in returning to the "fold". They see the hypocrisy and lack of love in the way that I was treated and the way their father is still considered a "fine theocratic brother"....
""I think you wish I'd shut up and turn away like a good little mousey and stop telling my story""
I could turn around and say I think you wish I would shut up and go away because my story is so different from your's.
Don't flatter yourself, I really don't care that much one way or the other.
""It was reiterrated to me through what I heard from the pulpit and in writing that it was my parents right--nay THEIR DUTY to punish me thus for my various infractions.""
Funny, the talks and articles I remember talked about DISCIPINE and the need to discipline our children. Discipline, train, teach, and on occasion, when needed, a swat on the behind. I have been going the library and have yet to come across anything that condones, let alone encourages or demands spankings as discipline.
Looking back now, I know I NEEDED each and every spanking I got. I deserved them and have gone as far to tell my parents so.
prove it .the scripture designates the rod to be a symbol of discipline ,discipline is actually instruction not corporeal punishment,as far as a swat on the butt to get your childs attention,which one of you that have children never gave a harmless swat to your children during their childhood years,what you are portraying us as is child beaters no true,eventually your slander is going to catch up with you.you reap what you sow
Prove it? Would you like me to take pictures of my scars and put them online?
My MOTHER is the one who is reaping what she sowed. I have little to no respect for her. She now denies that she ever laid a hand on me.
Witnesses DO NOT condone beating children. Why is it that bad parenting skills are automatically blamed on this allegedly "All Powerful W.B.&T.S?"
I had the shit beaten out of me as a child. My mother would support her reason for beating me by quoting the "use the rod" statement. Even if she was beating me for something my father did, apparently I still deserved it.
I remember seeing kids at the Kingdom Hall getting hauled off to the bathroom for a beating. I remember one kid yelling "Daddy don't spank me! Daddy don't spank me!" Then, you'd hear it echo in the bathroom, the kid would start howling, and my mother would be sitting there with a fucking smile on her face. It was almost as if she enjoyed the sound of a child being beaten.
You're a fucking nimrod and a moron. All of the TALK you say the WBTS says about discipline that is not related to spanking, where are all of the parenting articles to prove it? There are a million parenting magazines out there that talk about age-appropriate ways to discipline other than SPANKING. What does the WBTS? They, who are supposed to be God's spokesperson on earth. They, who are supposed to print the most important magazines on the face of the earth. They haven't ONE TIME printed or dedicated an article of parenting techniques that does not involve punishment of some type. They use the word discipline and the only method they can think of to encourage is using a rod.
Show me ONE MAGAZINE dedicated to parenting techniques where the "Rod of Discipline" isn't mentioned, and I'll mail you a crisp $100 bill.
Brigid, I validate your experience. There wasn't ONE meeting I went to as a child, or teenager, that some child was not in the back getting mommy and daddy's latent rage taken out on them. Spanking was laughed about, encouraged, and JW parents congratulated each other for meting out 'loving discipline.'
I have said it before on this forum, this is a religion of child-haters.
I have a 16 year old and a 4 year old. The 16 year old is a delightful human being. She has never been physically punished. It is NOT necessary.
Try your bullshit elsewhere, Class
""You're a fucking nimrod and a moron""
"'Show me ONE MAGAZINE dedicated to parenting techniques where the "Rod of Discipline" isn't mentioned, and I'll mail you a crisp $100 bill""
Here's on for you. Taken from the 2004 Watchtower library CD.
"Can the Bible Help You Train Your Children?
THE orchid is a very attractive flower, but it is difficult to raise. To do so successfully, you need to control
the temperature, the light, and the size of the flowerpot. The orchid is sensitive to soil and fertilizer and is
easily damaged by disease and insects. Thus, it is very common to fail at one’s first attempt at raising an orchid.
Rearing children is far more difficult and complicated, and it also requires careful attention. So it is common for
parents to feel at a loss when it comes to child rearing. Many feel the need for help, like an orchid grower who
needs advice from an expert. Obviously, every parent wants to get the best guidance. Where can such guidance be
While the Bible is not a manual on child rearing, the Creator inspired the writers to include in it much practical
advice on the subject. The Bible emphasizes the nurturing of desirable qualities, which many feel is often
overlooked. (Ephesians 4:22-24) In this respect, Scriptural counsel supplies a key element of a balanced education.
Such counsel has already benefited thousands who have applied it, regardless of the era in which they lived or their cultural background. Hence, following Scriptural counsel can help you to be successful in training your children.
Parents’ Example—The Best Education
“Do you, however, the one teaching someone else, not teach yourself? You, the one preaching ‘Do not steal,’ do you
steal? You, the one saying ‘Do not commit adultery,’ do you commit adultery?”—Romans 2:21, 22.
A chairman of the Seoul Board of Education said: “Example in word and deed is the best child education.” If parents
do not set a good example in speech and conduct and give their child specific instruction, the child will quickly
assume they are hypocritical. The parents’ words will lose their effect. For instance, if parents want to teach
their child honesty, they themselves must be honest. It is very common for some parents, when they do not want to
receive a telephone call, to have their child say, “Sorry, my dad (or mom) is not here.” The child who is given such direction will be embarrassed and confused. In time, he may begin to lie without feeling guilty if he is in a difficult situation.
Therefore, if parents sincerely want their child to be an honest person, they themselves must speak honestly and
Do you want to train your child to speak well? Then you have to set a good example. Your child will be quick to
imitate you. Sung-sik, a father of four, says: “My wife and I decided not to use crude language. We showed respect
for each other and did not raise our voices even when we were upset or angry. A good example was far more effective
than mere words. We are pleased that our children are respectful and polite when they talk with others.” The Bible
says at Galatians 6:7: “Whatever a man is sowing, this he will also reap.” Parents who want their children to have
high moral standards must first show that they themselves are living according to such standards.
Keep the Lines of Communication Open
“You must inculcate [God’s commandments] in your son and speak of them when you sit in your house and when you walk
on the road and when you lie down and when you get up.”—Deuteronomy 6:7.
The trend to work overtime is on the increase. When both husband and wife have jobs, it has a serious impact. The
time that many parents spend with their children is diminishing. While at home, parents have to do housework and
other chores, so they may well be tired or exhausted. Under such circumstances, how can you maintain good
communication with your children? Opportunities for conversation may arise if you and your children do the household
chores together. One family head even got rid of the TV, primarily to have more time for conversation with his
children. He observed: “At first the children were bored, but as I played puzzle games with them and discussed
interesting books, they came to accept the change.”
It is important that children early on become accustomed to communicating with their parents. Otherwise, when the
children are adolescents and perhaps face problems, they will not think of their parents as friends whom they can
talk to. How can you help them to open their hearts? Proverbs 20:5 says: “Counsel in the heart of a man is as deep
waters, but the man of discernment is one that will draw it up.” By using viewpoint questions, such as “What do you
think?” parents can encourage their children to express their thoughts and feelings.
What will you do if your child makes a serious mistake? That is the time when he needs kind consideration. Control
your emotions while you listen to your child. A father says this about his way of dealing with such a situation:
“When the children make mistakes, I try not to overreact. I sit down and listen to what they have to say. I try to
grasp the situation. When I find it difficult to control my spirit, I wait a while and calm down.” If you control
your emotions and listen, the correction you give will more readily be accepted.
Discipline Based on Love Is Essential
“You, fathers, do not be irritating your children, but go on bringing them up in the discipline and mental-regulating
of Jehovah.”—Ephesians 6:4.
To get good results, your manner of giving loving discipline is important. How is it that parents can ‘irritate their
children’? If the discipline does not fit the seriousness of the mistake or if it is given in a highly critical way,
children will resist. Discipline should in all cases be given with love. (Proverbs 13:24) If you reason with your
children, they will realize that you discipline them out of love.—Proverbs 22:15; 29:19.
On the other hand, it is good for children to feel the undesirable consequences of wrong behavior. For instance, if
the child wrongs another person, you can insist that he apologize. When he breaks family rules, you may place restrictions on certain privileges in order to emphasize the importance of keeping rules.
It is good to administer discipline at the right time. Ecclesiastes 8:11 points out: “Because sentence against a bad
work has not been executed speedily, that is why the heart of the sons of men has become fully set in them to do bad.
” Similarly, many children will test whether they can escape without punishment after misbehaving. So once you have
warned that punishment will follow a specific wrongdoing, be sure to follow through.
Wholesome Recreation Has Value
“There is . . . a time to laugh . . . and a time to skip about.”—Ecclesiastes 3:1, 4.
Leisure time and wholesome, balanced recreation are necessary for the mind and body of a child to develop. When
parents enjoy recreation with their children, family ties are strengthened and the children gain a sense of security.
What types of recreation can members of a family enjoy together? If you take the time to think about it, you can
find many pleasant things to do. There are outdoor sports, such as bicycle riding, and ball games, such as tennis,
badminton, and volleyball. And imagine the joyful times that can be had when the family plays musical instruments
together. Fine memories can be the result of traveling to nearby places to enjoy nature.
In such situations, parents can instill in their children a balanced view of recreation. A Christian man who has
three sons said: “I share in my children’s recreation if possible. For instance, when they play computer games,
I ask about them. When they enthusiastically explain them, I use the opportunity to talk about the danger of
unwholesome entertainment. I have noticed that they turn down inappropriate entertainment.” Yes, children who are
happy with family recreation are less inclined to resort to television programs, videos, movies, and Internet games
that feature violence, immorality, and drug abuse.
Help Your Children Make Good Friends
“He that is walking with wise persons will become wise, but he that is having dealings with the stupid ones will
fare badly.”—Proverbs 13:20.
A Christian father who successfully brought up four children said: “The importance of their choice of friends cannot
be overemphasized. One bad friend can destroy all the work you’ve done.” To help his children make good friends, he
wisely asked such questions as: Who is your closest friend? Why do you like him? What about him do you want to
imitate? Another parent arranges for his children to invite close friends home. He can then observe them and give
his children appropriate guidance.
It is also important to teach children that they can make friends with older people as well as with peers. Bum-sun,
a father of three sons, says: “I help my children to appreciate that friends don’t have to be peers, as in the case
of David and Jonathan in the Bible. Actually, I invite Christians of various age groups to enjoy association with my
children. As a result, the children associate with many people who are not their peers.” Association with exemplary
seniors gives the children the advantage of learning many things.
You Can Succeed in Child Training
According to one survey conducted in the United States, many parents who tried to instill such qualities as self-
control, self-discipline, and honesty in their children had relatively little success. Why is that so difficult? A
mother who answered the survey said: ‘The sad thing is that the only way to protect our children is to lock them up
in a room and never let them go out in the world.’ She had in mind that the environment children now grow up in is
worse than ever before. In this situation, is it really possible to bring up children successfully?
If you wanted to raise an orchid but were concerned that it might wither, you might be discouraged. If an authority
on orchid cultivation came along and gave you some good ideas and confidently said, “You will succeed if you do it
this way,” how relieved you would be! Jehovah, the Supreme Authority on human nature, provides advice on the best
method of bringing up children. He says: “Train up a boy according to the way for him; even when he grows old he
will not turn aside from it.” (Proverbs 22:6) When you train children according to the Bible’s counsel, you will
likely have the joy of seeing your children grow up to be responsible adults, considerate of others, having a sense
of morality. Then they will be loved by men but most of all by Jehovah, our heavenly Father."
You can keep your money. Maybe you can use it for anger management therapy. The problem is how you view the word "discipline" . If you think it ONLY means physical punishment then you are misusing discipline.