Do You Fear That Islamic Fundamentalists Will Start WWIII ???

by minimus 93 Replies latest jw friends

  • wombat

    Upside/down......I have noted your suggestion that one way towards peace would be to trade the Middle East for Australia.

    I don't have a problem with that so long as I don't have to wear a tent. (Actually I made a tent in bed this morning).

    A second Queensland newspaper has now printed the "virgin" cartoon.

    The Muslims in Australia are pretty cool. Just a few ratbag Imams and a bunch of disaffected youths whose violent activities have nothing to do with their faith.

    Australia badly needs skilled workers but isn't actively promoting this in Muslim countries. Too scared.

  • greendawn

    Islam and democracy do not mix as there isn't a single truly democratic Moslem country in the world. Strangely they rule their own countries but can not create conditions of respect for the human rights of their citizens.

    If they had been ruled by christian colonial powers, but they rule themselves so they can't blame anyone else for the bad life quality of their citizens. Is western civilisation superior? Why do they want to spread Islam if it failed their own societies?

  • Pole

    ::I'm sure JWs would theorize that this "could" be the beginning of the "end".

    I thought it was the end of the end, already?


  • Check_Your_Premises

    Do I fear that Islamic Fundamentalists will start WWIII?

    First off, it would be WWIV. WWIII was the Cold War.

    Second, I am not so sure that in 20 or 30 years the general consensus won't be that this war started on 9-11. Or maybe even with the taking of the American embassy in Tehran. It may be said that only those in denial really thought we weren't at war.

    What Bush has tried to do is avoid at all costs a war against Islam. He has focused on the tyrannical regimes and tried to befriend the individual mohamedan. The hour may be to late for that. There is nothing more frightening to me than to imagine what it would mean for a country founded on the basis of religious freedom to make war on a religion.

    It is true that Islam has no army. They do howevere make up 1/4 of the worlds population. They also actually believe in, and are willing to die for their beliefs. The same can't be said necessarily of all in the west. The mohomedans have noticed this by the way. For there to be a clash of civilizations there must be two civilizations willing to fight. The mohomedans will fight. The west has dedicataed the last 50 years to not believing in anything, let alone anything worth fighting for.

  • Check_Your_Premises

    The suicide bomber's willingness to discard civilization's cherished rules for warfare gives him enormous strength. In the Cain-and-Abel conflicts of the 21st century, ruthlessness trumps technology. We refuse to comprehend the suicide bomber's soul--even though today's wars are contests of souls, and belief is our enemy's ultimate order of battle. We write off the suicide bomber as a criminal, a wanton butcher, a terrorist. Yet, within his spiritual universe, he's more heroic than the American soldier who throws himself atop a grenade to spare his comrades: He isn't merely protecting other men, but defending his god. The suicide bomber can justify any level of carnage because he's doing his god's will. We agonize over a prisoner's slapped face, while our enemies are lauded as heroes for killing innocent masses (even of fellow believers). We continue to narrow our view of warfare's acceptable parameters even as our enemies amplify the concept of total war. ...

    The hallmark of our age is the failure of belief systems and a subsequent flight back to primitive fundamentalism--and the phenomenon isn't limited to the Middle East. Faith revived is running roughshod over science and civilization. Secular societies appear increasingly fragmented, if not fragile. The angry gods are back. And they will not be defeated with cruise missiles or computer codes.

    A paradox of our time is that the overwhelmingly secular global media--a collection of natural-born religion-haters--have become the crucial accomplices of the suicide bomber fueled by rabid faith. Mass murderers are lionized as freedom fighters, while our own troops are attacked by the press they protect for the least waywardness or error. One begins to wonder if the bomber's suicidal impulse isn't matched by a deep death wish affecting the West's cultural froth. (What if Darwin was right conceptually, but failed to grasp that homo sapiens' most powerful evolutionary strategy is faith?) Both the suicide bomber and the "world intellectual" with his reflexive hatred of America exist in emotional realms that our rational models of analysis cannot explain. The modern age's methods for interpreting humanity are played out.

    We live in a new age of superstition and bloodthirsty gods, of collective madness. Its icons are the suicide bomber, the veil, and the video camera. ...

    We are not (yet) at war with Islam, but the extreme believers within Islam are convinced that they are soldiers in a religious war against us. Despite their rhetoric, they are the crusaders. Even our conceptions of the struggle are asymmetrical. Despite the horrors we have witnessed, we have yet to take religious terrorists seriously on their own self-evident terms. We invaded a succession of their tormented countries, but haven't come close to penetrating their souls. The hermetic universe of the Islamist terrorist is immune to our reality (if not to our bullets), but our intellectuals appear equally incapable of accepting the religious extremist's reality.

    excerpted from
  • z

    Germany lambastes Iran for dragging Israel into cartoon fray

    By News Agencies

    An Iranian newspaper's call for Holocaust cartoons is an attempt to drag Israel into a conflict between Europe and the Muslim world over caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed, a German government minister said.

    "After denying the right of Israel to exist and denying the Holocaust, the people around President (Mahmoud) Ahmadinejad are trying to escalate the situation," Deputy Foreign Minister Gernot Erler was quoted as saying in Wednesday's edition of the Berliner Zeitung daily newspaper.

    "This fills us with deep concern, that a state is using this clash of cultures as a tool to further its own dominance."

    Iran's best-selling newspaper launched a competition on Tuesday to find the best cartoon about the Holocaust, in retaliation for the publication in Denmark and other European countries of caricatures of Islam's most revered prophet.

    Last year Ahmadinejad called for Israel to be "wiped off the map" and said he doubted six million Jews were killed by the Nazis during World War Two.

    Holocaust denial is a crime in Germany, punishable with up to five years in prison. Printing cartoons that make light of the Holocaust but do not question it would not be a crime but would invite private lawsuits and other legal difficulties for a newspaper in Germany.

    Eckart von Klaeden, foreign policy spokesman for Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservative Christian Democrats (CDU) in parliament, said Iran was trying to widen a conflict between Denmark and the Muslim world to include Israel.

    "Once again Iran is trying to drag Israel into the conflict with the motto -- Israel is responsible for everything," von Klaeden said in a statement. "We should not let Israel be dragged into this."

    Iranian newspaper announces cartoons contest on Holocaust
    One of Iran's biggest newspapers on Tuesday called for artists to submit caricatures on the Holocaust, saying it wants to target a subject as taboo in the West as the Prophet Muhammad is for Muslims.

    The daily Hamshahri, one of Iran's five biggest newspapers, said its contest for Holocaust cartoons was meant as a test of the West's principle of freedom of expression.

    The newspaper invited foreign and Iranian artists to send in cartoons about the Nazi genocide against the Jews, saying it would publish more details on the rules on Monday. The contest is being organized in cooperation with the House of Caricatures, a Tehran exhibition center for cartoons.

    Does the West extend freedom of expression to the crimes committed by the United States and Israel, or an event such as the Holocaust? Or is its freedom only for insulting religious sanctities?" a short article on the back page of Hamshahri said.

    Both the paper and the center are owned by the Tehran Municipality, which is dominated by allies of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who is well known for his opposition to Israel.

    EU warns Iran
    The call for Holocaust cartoons was announced as the EU's executive office warned Iran Tuesday that attempts to boycott Danish goods or cancel trade contracts with European countries would lead to a further rupture in already cool relations.

    The EU was trying to confirm comments made by Iran's president that the country should boycott Danish products in protest of cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammed, EU spokesman Johannes Laitenberger told reporters.

    "A boycott of Danish goods is by definition a boycott of European goods," Laitenberger said. "A boycott hurts the economic interests of all parties, also those who are boycotting and can damage the growing trade links between the EU and the countries concerned."


  • Check_Your_Premises

    ‘I wonder what sort of a tale we’ve fallen into?’ said Sam. ‘I wonder,’ said Frodo.
    ‘But I don’t know. And that’s the way of a real tale… The people in it don’t know…’
    ‘The old stories! Why, to think of it, we’re in the same tale still! It’s going on. Don’t the great tales never end?’
    ‘No, they never end as tales,’ said Frodo. ‘But the people in them come, and go when their part’s ended.’
    ‘You and I, Sam, are still stuck in the worst places of the story,
    and it is all too likely that some will say at this point: “Shut the book now, dad; we don’t want to read any more.”’
  • Pole


    The fact is that these cartoons were printed last October (in the context within which you mean by free press) and no-one seemed to notice. It was only when they were reprinted across several European countries that all this kicked off. I call that stupidity on the part of some newspapers. And I guess the fact that we are seeing newspaper editors resign over it proves my point.

    I gues you might also want to know this (

    Delayed reaction
    How did a series of not particularly well-drawn or funny cartoons, published on 30 September in a Danish newspaper, produce such anger in Europe and the Middle East four months later?
    If anyone fanned the flames, it was not Osama Bin Laden.
    Staff at Danish consulate in Beirut
    Danish interests have been targeted across the world
    Instead, it was the mild, distinctly moderate figure of Ahmed Aboul Gheit, the Foreign Minister of Egypt.
    As early as November, he was protesting about the cartoons, and calling them an insult.
    "Egypt," he said, "has confronted this disgraceful act and will continue to confront such insults."
    Perhaps it was a convenient way for the Egyptian government to demonstrate some Islamic credentials while not attacking any of the countries which really matter to Egypt.
    He raised the issue at various international meetings. Slowly the news filtered out to the streets.


  • z

    Iranian agency: Muslims should ban Fiat

    Iranian news agency Fars says Italian carmaker Fiat should be added to list of companies banned by Muslims as ‘Italy has become the main supporter of the Zionists’
    Nir Magal

    The conservative Iranian news agency Fars determined that Italian carmaker Fiat should be added to the list of companies banned by the Muslims as “Italy has become the main supporter of the Zionists.”

    According to the agency, identified with the regime, Fiat is actually a “Zionist company.” Another reason to boycott Fiat is the publication of the Prophet Muhammad cartoons in Italian newspaper La Stampa.

    Iranian spiritual leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei told Iranian air force soldiers that the publication of the cartoons in the West is an Israeli plot born out of Hamas’ victory in the Palestinian elections.

    Iran has cut off its economic ties with Denmark following the cartoon row; Iran imports goods worth an estimated USD 280 million from Denmark a year.

    The EU slammed Iran’s decision to ban Danish goods, saying it constituted a boycott on Europe as a whole.

  • coffee_black

    If the Islamic Fundamentalists had nuclear weapons they would not hesitate for a second to use them. We have no choice but to prevent that from happening. If we wait too long, we're toast. They HATE anyone who does not believe as they do, and believe they are given a mandate by allah to kill us all. They have no respect for human life or the rights and beliefs of others. They are in a cult far worse than the watchtower. You cannot reason them out of their belief system. They are beyond that. I wonder why the main stream Moslems do not speak out (in any meaningful way) against the behavior of thier more radical fellow believers. I am a news junkie...I listen/watch news constantly and have heard virtually nothing from the Muslim community that condemns the horrific things they have done. The hateful teachings that spark the violence need to be exposed. These poor deluded people are programmed to hate from an early age. They are being exploited by an evil cult as pawns in a plan to dominate the world. They will use any means at their disposal to do this.

    I respect the beliefs of others...but I draw the line when that belief involves killing people who don't believe as they do.


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