HOW DO WE SOLVE THIS PARADOX?

by Terry 61 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Terry

  By whatever processs of indoctrination or persuasion, people are trained to accept that something someone else wrote or said has come directly from a divine source. When they buy into that, they accept those words about how they should behave or even the very purpose of their existence as gospel. Add to that the fact that the Divine Words can be interpreted in different ways, and it's a mess

  As long as a person sees and accepts the risk.....they are not evading their responsibility.

  With religious matters the belief system is designed to eliminate the sense of risk. That is why it is called "Salvation".

  T.
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  Terry

  i do not think it is possible, even via science, logic and freethinking. we're animals. stop running from it. if you really don't want to be religious, then wallow in your filth, f*ck and be f*cked, and then die, okay? and stop pretending that you know the definition of "good" and "better

  So the dichotomy is: religion/superstition/mysticism/faith..........or...........wallow in your filth, f*ck and be f*cked, and then die?

  Ummm, could you have accidentally eliminated the actual alternatives??
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  Terry

  have i highjacked the thread, and missed your point? no. i am STILL talking about YOUR premise, and am questioning the implicit assumption in it: this place called "better", even though you did not even mention it once. which is what makes a premise a premise

  GOOD.....BETTER .....BEST!

  This requires having alternatives. It requires having the rational process to compare. It requires a value system rooted in the fundamental understanding of reality. All of which makes the ultimate decision an intelligent choice with practical implications.

  May I be permitted an example?

  A child is ill and requires medical treatment.

  The parents believe prayer and supplication is best and trusting in the Lord.

  The illness and danger the child experiences is in the REAL WORLD.

  The choice process of the parents is rooted in mysticism and superstition (i.e. Religion).

  Their faith is strong and the believe utterly.

  The impact on the child is the ACTUAL problem; not the strength of faith on the part of the parents.

  This is what I mean.

  Which is the BEST course of action for the parents?

  Why not combine the two and give the child a double chance?

  Well, if you are a JW or a Christian Scientist you cannot go beyond prayer for certain health problems.

  Tsk tsk tsk.

  The practical is made anathema by this sort of faith.

  T.
• 

  mouthy

  (sinful man) is faulty.AMEN TO THAT!!!!!!!

  It is not that women are a large army it is LARGE women are the army
• 

  Terry

  If you just throw religion out there is a chance that you lose your connection to your culture

  Similar arguments were made for slavery, votes for women and equal rights.

  So too for polygamy.

  If you don't draw the line at the point of reality/unreality you are guilty of destroying what makes you a sentient individual.

  Your rational mind is the most important asset you have.

  As a member of society you cannot go along to get along. We each have the utmost responsibility to call a spade a spade.

  The large ship of "society" has a small rudder and it is the man of conscience who must steer.

  T.
• 

  trevor

  IF MAN IS FLAWED, TRICKY AND POLLUTED........WHY TRUST HIM AT ALL WITH ANY MESSEGE PURPORTED TO BE PURE AND TRUE???

  Religious leaders are nothing more than politicians and just as corrupt and greedy. They claim to have some special connection to God that the rest of us are denied unless we join their club and support their system. This always involves the transfer of money from their adherents to them.

  The Bible and all belief systems are as flawed as the men who created them. How could it be otherwise?

  There is no paradox in my mind. I don’t trust them or believe a word they say.

  I already have a direct connection with the source of life - without it I would be dead! There is nothing that I can be sold that will improve what I already have. I reject beliefs that cause people to live in fear mistaking defence of their beliefs as defence of their lives, blinded to real threats and in terror of losing their faith.

  Owning our own minds is the greatest freedom we can posses as humans. Your campaign, Terry, to enlighten people and free them from the bondage and tyranny of religion is a noble endeavour.
• 

  Terry

  Owning our own minds is the greatest freedom we can posses as humans. Your campaign, Terry, to enlighten people and free them from the bondage and tyranny of religion is a noble endeavour.

  I only wish somebody had gotten to me about the time I was studying the Paradise Lost book with my JW buddy way back when.

  I wish somebody had confronted me with certain important questions that need answering.

  But, instead, I relied on what little experience I'd garnered from my parents and grandparents (who were superstitious and none of them had even graduated from High School!)

  My buddy, Johnny, had indoctrination methodology. I just had average experience in dealing with matters of faith. As far as I had ever known FAITH was a given. It was the STARTING POINT. It actually never occured to me to examine why something as important as a religious orthodoxy doesn't need the same fact-based structure as any other true body of learning. If only somebody had simply asked me why an unsupported hypothesis which is conditionally valid (if its claims and history can be confirmed) is treated as though it were solid and beyond question---it might have made a difference.

  So, that is my aim now...
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  lisaBObeesa

  Terry, when you say 'religion' don't you actually mean 'Christianity'? Not all religions teach that man has a damaged consciousness polluted by sin, that man cannot think and reason own power, etc. So, your very first three statements are wrong....and so, I think your whole first post is, well, wrong.

  Sorry.

  Please don't hurt me.

  -Lisa
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  JamesThomas

  Owning our own minds is the greatest freedom we can posses as humans. Your campaign, Terry, to enlighten people and free them from the bondage and tyranny of religion is a noble endeavour.

  
  

  
  Indeed. I'm a fan of Terry's too.

  However, religion is basically beliefs; beliefs are thoughts; and thoughts are none other than -- the mind. Are we dancing in a circle? Can the mind free itself from itself? Or only think thoughts it calls "freedom"?

  The problems arise when consciousness identifies self as what the mind thinks and believes. Religious beliefs are only part of the mentalized matrix and misidentification of being a separated and isolated individual adrift in a frightening and threatening universe of "other".

  If we help guide people out of religion, and offer up in their place only new beliefs, or beliefs in no-beliefs, have we helped release anyone from their cell? or simply changed the pictures on the prison walls?

  For some it is becoming obvious that we are not our once cherished religious beliefs, and low and behold, without them we still exist, and may even have a new sense of lightness and comfort. What about all the other beliefs about self? How real and true are they?

  Having the sense and courage to let go of religious beliefs, can be an opportunity for simply an exchange of beliefs, or a domino affect which destroys everything we mistakenly believe ourselves to be.

  j
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  tetrapod.sapien

  Having the sense and courage to let go of religious beliefs, can be an opportunity for simply an exchange of beliefs, or a domino affect which destroys everything we mistakenly believe ourselves to be.