force
i dont know if the bible is God's word or not.i dont know enough abt it to decide.
Well, I think a real, determinable question is going to be of more use to you than a hypothetical quandry.
Take the two simple examples I gave. Research the range of date given by Biblical scholars for the Noachian Flood. Investigate the Egyptian civilisation and the date Cheop's pyramid was built - not that there aren't earlier monuments than that. Research bristlecone pines. Weigh the evidence. As questions here if there are areas you need help on.
It really is that simple. It just requires effort and the balls to undertake research that might end up with you making a major reassesment of whether the Bible is god's accurate and inspired word. If it isn't, an AWFUL lot of conclusions fall from that simple determination, one of which you are already nibbling at the edges of;
but i wonder if there is a God why he doesnt prove he is there, so there is no doubt in anyones mind that he exists. at least then people could make a choice from fact.
If god is just, then he should do this. An ineffable argument as to why knowledge is partial or uncertain runs in contradiction to what (for example) the Bible says. I god is indeed desirous that none be destroyed, ensuring that people know;
a/ it is real, and
b/ what it wants
... is vital, otherwise people of goodwill and blameless conduct might be obliterated just because they used the wonderful brains god supposedly gave them to demand evidence that it is reasonable to demand in the face of so many 'gods' and so many conflicting claims (none of which can be absolutely determined to be true) as to what these gods want. It faith without works is dead, faith without proof is stupid.
I have faith when I get on a plane it will take off, fly, and land. This is based on physics and statistics. I might be wrong, but it is unlikely. I find it hard to conceive a just god would leave us in such doubt.
If book of the month club can delivered a personalised message to you telling you what they want from you and what you can get from them, I think god needs to change it's attitude, or find a better advertising and PR agency.
Of course, this is all forms of god with a personality and with a list of demands for their creation.
'God' doesn't have to have a personality or any demands for us. God might be an idea verging on reality, an 'emergent characteristic' of human civilisation that is not predictable by observing the units making up that civilisation.
For example;
- There are bees which when they swarm in big clumps will, if provoked, make big 'ripples' in the surface of the clump by swaing together in a synchronised fashion, frightening potential predators and reducing the chance the swarm will have to attack (which would kill many of the attackers bee stings being how they are). No way you could guess that form a single bee.
- There are bacteria - little wriggly hairlike one. They live in little groves on the surface of a plasmoid and for years were thought to be part of the plasmoid, not seperate organisms. By themselves in the open they wriggle to move. When in massed ranks in their little grooves they synchronise their movements into little ripples. No way you could predict that from watching one by itself.
'God' started off as an explaination for the unexplicable. Lightning, for example; angry weather god. Now god in its traditonal concept makes unananswerable questions instead of answering them as most of nature is explicable. However, there is (arguably, possibly) a 'thread' joining us all. It is no more miraculous than wriggly bees or bacteria, but is still awesome and wonderful.
Remember, regarding acquiring knowledge and determing facts - as the Beatles sand (well, Paul), the movement you need is on YOUR shoulder. Good luck.
James.
Hiya.
There is wisdom in your words. Your lucid reasoning that if there is a God, it must be so vast as to be in some way all-embracing, gives reason and motivation to investigate into our intimate sense of being and existence to see what treasure may be found there.
More or less what I think (although I know we differ on detail - I feel 'my' 'god' is far more prosaic and consequential from the material world than 'yours', although I might be wrong). I feel that we cannot be disconnected from 'it', although we might not be aware of 'it', and that ultimately if we never are aware of 'it' it doesn't matter, but being aware of it is like... ooo... spice...
Of course I am equally aware I might be talking out my a-hole on this, and might be constructing a nice intellectual sounding framework for wishful thinking.
But isn't that what 'god' has always been?
Damn, I'm a fundamentialist...
acacdian
I thought you were cynical just about everything,
You say that like it's a bad thing.
As you can see, I am at least consistent in my cynicism and questioning as I include myself... and I see it more as having high standards of evidence. Think of the song 'We won't be fooled again" by the Who and you might 'get' my 'angle'.
So when I say I worship God every day when I'm watering my flowers, I think you would understand what I mean.
Yes, absolutley. I see god in the eyes of my children. I see god in a corner I drive past everyday in the way to work, where the road crosses a little bridge and you get a view over (very flat, I live in Holland) fields; a pretty ordinary place that just happens to offer an enchantingly pretty view, especially in cold frosty misty weather where the vista, with little stands of trees placed just so, it makes me want to take a picture every day from exactly the same position and create a montage. I see god in people helping each other for no reason what-so-ever other than that they want to. I see god in my cat climbing on my lap when I am sad to comfort me (she's not really that sort of cat but she makes exceptions...), and in her face when I flash a torch light on the floor for her to chase and she looks between the torch and the light beam, fractions away from figuring it out before her instincts drive her to chase the light round the room until she's panting.
But I disagree about your use of the words "divine" and "mundane" I do believe we all have a divine nature, and I believe Jesus talk about reaching that Divine state by going down that road, that's narrow and difficult to travel.
That's fine. My 'god' is diffuse and all embracing, undemanding and giving, distant but in the heart of everything. Not really a 'god' at all.. although sometime I do feel the Universe is, as we say in England, taking the piss. SO maybe it does have a personality (and a sense of humour);
When I moved from England to Holland, for 45 minutes or so whilst we drove East, the sun and rain were just so there was a rainbow leading the way. The day I got engaged, the weather held all day - until we drove home from Paris. As we left Paris, the rain started. Came round a corner and there was a rainbow that looked so gaudy it was like a child's drawing, full arc, not half arc, with a reflection. THAT made me laugh.
Of course, I can rationalise that to &uck and back again... yet... but... and...
