Outoftheorg, Did you get flooded? Hope you're okay.
What Are Most JWs Disillusioned Over?
by minimus 60 Replies latest jw friends
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NotBlind
What disillusioned me most when I was a Witness was the fact that all those who made the 'rules', the GB members, the CO's, the DO's, the Bethel heavies, had absolutely NO idea what the average Witness had to deal with on a daily basis. We were told we had to read 3 or 4 magazines a month, daily text, Bible every day, in addition to service every week, plus giving up at least two evenings and one morning each day for the meetings. Oh, and don't forget preparing for all those meetings. Of course, the people telling us to do all that didn't have to worry about paying the bills, or much of anything else for that matter.
A few JW's have let me know that they are not happy with the recent crackdown on college/university. The blokes making the decisions in the org have absolutely no idea (or do not care) that going to college is a necessary fact of life for many, if not most students today.
I was constantly disillusioned by the constant complaining done by all the higher-ups in the org. Nothing is ever good enough. If we weren't going out in the field enough, we were criticized. If we weren't conducting enough studies, we were criticized. If we showed up late for the meeting, we were criticized. If we wanted to better ourselves and go get and education, we were REALLY criticized.
Most JW's I know today fall into two categories: 1) JW die-hards, and 2) floaters.
The die-hards will keep the org going for the next 100 years. Only rarely does one of the die-hards see the light about the org.
The floaters, on the other hand, really don't care anymore. Their bodies may still be in the org, but their hearts left long ago. The floaters have found that the only way to survive in this religion is to 'tune it all out'. They may still attend, go in the field service, and some of them may even be MS's and elders. But they don't really give a tinker's dam about the newest WT article or the offer for the month. They couldn't tell you what last year's assembly releases were. The floaters have nearly quit donating, too. Many of these floaters may never leave the org completely, due to family ties. But I see a greater percentage of JW's 'joining their ranks', to quote a phrase from the WT, over the next several years.
People are disillusioned with the constant carping of the WT, and they're learning to tune it out.
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greendawn
One group of really disillusioned JWs will be those that gave everything to the WTS, thinking that they were giving it all to jehovah, without planning for the future and are now in old age, shockingly armageddon did not arrive and they have no savings to live on.
At least that will teach them and hopefully others a lesson, the org that was inciting them to follow that self sacrificing course will certainly not help them out in their time of need. And is that the org that jehovah uses? -
minimus
EXCELLENT post. NotBlind! The elders even get on your case if you're on time but not 15 to 20 mins. before the meeting.
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darinwilson
Wow Terry,
I have had the same thoughts about this as you, but have not been able to explain it as well as you just have.
Thanks, your posts are very good.
Take Care
Darin
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darinwilson
Hi Evergreen,
Yeh, me too, it was simply religious overdose. Too much religion, feeling my mind aching to hear something different, the utter boredom. All those talks were so damn predictable I could usually guess correctly 9/10 times what the next sentence would be etc...I can't believe how the witnesses would all act like they had heard this info for the first time, saying how insightful it was etc......etc......... puke
Darin
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Terry
Jehovah's Witnesses are living the way pre-Christian tribal Jews lived under the law.
Instead of going to a priest and letting him cut the throat of a goat for forgiveness the publisher goes to the Service Meeting and door to door work and has his income sliced by wasting his time. The Elders tally the jot and tiddle scores and mete out the nods and grimaces.
Having your life controlled and supervised isn't even pleasant for a pimply teenager; how can adults live this way?
I'll tell you how: they are weak and their mind has been disarmed by constant propaganda.
The average JW lives the way a battered spouse lives under the thumb of an abusive, complaining, fault-finding husband.
They blame themselves and enable the beast to continue.
It stinks.
T.
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chubbyteletubby
Uh, oops. Okay, let’s try this again...
Howdy, all of you weirdos and sinners and freaks out there...<p>Terry, you make some excellent and very articulate arguments. In fact, I think I’m just setting myself up for failure even attempting to argue with you. However, that being said, I’m afraid I do have to disagree with you on some issues as I am the irreducible Devil’s Advocate in every debate.</p>First of all, I have never been and never will be a JW. I find them fascinating, however. Just as fascinating as those weirdos that killed themselves in San Diego back in ‘97 (you know, when the Hale-Bopp comet or whatever the hell it’s called made a brief cameo in our skies). It’s called ‘mass hysteria’ and it’s a very real element for animals like humans who tend to be social beings. However, mass hysteria is something we can’t avoid. And it takes many different forms - not just religion.
"Suddenly, the answer becomes clearer because Christianity is a substitute for real life and a delusional one at best. Pretending does not make your life better on a meaningful level because you are fooling yourself and often fooling others into a couterfeit status quo"
Are Christians and JWs any different than the next person? Everyone has a crutch. Everyone is in a state of delusion to some extent. It’s all that keeps most people sane. Even those who claim to be completely objective and rational people have crutches, whether they are aware of it or not. How can you NOT have a crutch!? Of course it’s absurd. Life is absurd. You’re not wrong in what you say here. I just think you need to realize that EVERYONE does this.
"The counterfeit existence will bump hard into reality ever so often and inexplicable abrasions will take you down. If you are ill and a Christian Scientist what do you do? Do you treat the illness as something REAL? No, you wish away into an illusion that can be treated by prayer. This clearly covers much of mainstream Christian thinking too in other venues. But, my point is a real one. If you choose to deal with what you are REALLY dealing with in a genuine way you increase your prospects for success."
I think you’re about 50 percent right here. Actually, though, I think the power of the mind is HUGE. Prayer is nothing more than us willing ourselves to be better and, if coupled with modern science, our chances of overcoming the diseases that have plagued us for centuries CAN be achieved. You’re right though, many Christians and other religious fanatics are completely disassociated from reality.
"Life requires survival which requires an active and rational assessment of what it takes to cope with everyday living. Beyond mere survival there is the decision of what kind of life you desire for yourself which leads to making careful decisions. What education do you need? What is your earning potential? What investments are necessary? You build your life by realizing it requires building. The less you leave to chance (or mystical forces) the more hands-on effect you have on making it turn out the way you envision it. Life is about living. The quality of your life is about your values. Your values are about your very nature which comes out of every decision you make good or ill. Practicing hygiene lessens your chances for infection and so does hygienic thinking increase your capacity for a healthy decision process. Eating well increases your opportunity for health which requires you take the trouble to find out what healh is."
So, in other words, God helps those who help themselves. Can’t find any holes in this argument. I only wish I would have had parents who thought this way, as I might not be the pot-addled pill-popping manic-depressive sociopath that I am now.
"Life is a learning process. You have to guard yourself from all the phoney crap pretending to be knowledge that is as fake as waxed fruit You wouldn't build your dream home out of plaster of Paris and silly putty and neither should you build your thoughts with pseudo-science and urban legend. Life is what we CHOOSE to make it into by every act we create. We must develop our knowledge so that our tastes will develop and our conversency with excellence goes beyond the theoretical. We must learn to compete and succeed. Further, we must learn how to learn from our failures."
Life is a learning process? True, but the more I learn, the more I realize how little I know. I wish I was completely ignorant sometimes. I know just enough to know that I am a complete moron and always will be. In my opinion, the more one learns (and I mean really LEARN), the worse off you are. Life is what we choose to make it? So very true. This could also be interpreted as ‘life is what you your delusional mind makes it’. Learn to compete and succeed? Social Darwinism. I hate earth and I hate this universe, I hate God, and most of all I hate myself. I don’t want to compete with anyone. Success is a very loose term and usually means someone on this hellhole of a planet is suffering because of your ascent up the social ladder. That being said, I hope to succeed in life and in the end I have such a low regard for my fellow humans that I could care less if I become no better than a mere animal.
"The end of our life comes from what we have done, who we have chosen for friends, how we spent our time and money and how well we cared for the simplicity of fact-based thinking. Things don't just happen and things don't just work out for the best. We have to make things happen and have the skill to push it to the limits of excellence."
Go get ‘em, Tiger.
"Sitting on our mental butt and daydreaming of paradise didn't do it for us when we were Jehovah's sappy happy people and the result of that venue won't work no matter how hard the current crop of daydream believers wish for it. The only alternative to failure, depression, misery and chaos is an active, thinking rational mind that is filled with so much fact-based resource that our choices will reflect a taste for real living above mere humdrum existence."
You’re the ideal man of the 21 st century!! I’ve already made my points (or whatever you’d call my inane drivel), as have you. This is merely your summary, and a good one at that. Still, you’re lacking something, friend. Life isn’t all about fact-based ‘rationality’. We are all spiritual beings and there is a peace that passes all understanding that can never be achieved no matter how great our earthly deeds are. No matter how ambitious you are. No matter if you are Donald Trump or some starving 8 year old in Uganda. We have tried to box this spirituality into a religion and we fail. We are spiritual beings and no religion will ever explain it fully until the day we die and our souls ascend to that higher plane of enlightenment. It would be like explaining Algebra to an ant. We are STUPID, in other words.
"The lives of religious people are often filled with profound disconnect from reality and depression is quite common. They try to "solve" this by plunging into their delusions even deeper like struggling in quicksand."
So true, but I think you already know what I would have to say to this comment, so I wont elaborate on this one.
"Meaning in life is a matter of informed choice. The information has to be real, however."
You’re wrong. Okay, I’m done. I know I probably contradicted myself a couple times there, but oh well. Life is full of contradictions! Yeehaw!
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Scully
FairMind:
Are there only costs to Christianity? Are there NO benefits?
There are benefits! I don’t smoke, get drunk or take drugs. I work for my employer with a whole soul. The benefits? I’m alive, in good health and earn a comfortable living. This is not how it would have been for me without Christianity.
Funny you should mention that. I can say the same things - except I get the same "benefits" from being an atheist.