question, need some info

by onetwofour 51 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jgnat

    Westcott & Hort in it's day (1881) was an attempt to provide a faithful representation of the original form of the Greek New Testament, of the thousands of texts available. At the time that the New World Translation (NWT) was being completed, it was the best base text to work from. Quoted from this link:

    When Westcott and Hort compiled their text, they employed the two oldest then-known manuscripts, Vaticanus and Sinaiticus, as their text base. Since their day, a good number of manuscripts as old and in some cases a century or more older than these two manuscripts have been discovered.

    Though the Westcott-Hort text was the "standard" critical text for a generation or two, it is no longer considered such by anyone, and has not been for many years. The "standard" text or texts today are the Nestle or Nestle-Aland text (1st edition, 1898; 27th edition, 1993) and/or the various editions of The Greek New Testament published by the United Bible Societies (1st edition, 1966; 4th edition, 1993).

    If you are interested in expanding your basic bible knowledge, might I suggest an Alpha course. I see their signs everywhere around here.

    Many different churches run the program, and the atmosphere is open, non-pressured, friendly, and invites questions.

  • AuldSoul


    Welcome! Now you know a lot of people with Bible knowledge. That is, to me, one of the best things about this site.

    Deuteronomy 18:20-22 — But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, [but] the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

    Guess what the Jews used to determine whether a prophet was false? If they predicted something that didn't happen and they claimed to speak for God, they were false prophets. Now the only things left to determine are (1) did Jehovah's Witnesses ever say that something would happen that didn't, (2) did they ever claim to speak in God's name as a prophet, and (3) would Jesus choose, as his representatives, people that he specifically warned AGAINST following?

    "We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of 1874, 1914, 1918, and 1925. It was on this line of reckoning that the dates 1874, 1914, and 1918 were located; and the Lord has placed the stamp of his seal upon 1914 and 1918 beyond any possibility of erasure. What further evidence do we need? Using this same measuring is an easy matter to locate 1925, probably in the fall, for the beginning of the antitypical jubilee. There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914." (The Watchtower. May 15, 1922. "Chronology:Stamped With God's Approval")

    At one time, (in 1881) they had no doubt whatsoever about 1874, 1878 and 1914. At that time, 1925 wasn't even supposed to happen in this system, because Armageddon was supposed to have occurred in 1914.

    In 1922, in the article "Chronology" cited above, under the subheading "Stamped With God's Approval" they affirmed that there was no doubt regarding the chronology of 1874. Do you know what they were saying happened in 1874, that there could be "no doubt" of? That Christ returned in that year. And they spoke it in God's name, in other words, they claimed it was God's words they were telling. They were also teaching that the world had actually ended in 1914, but that the effects would not be evidenced for some years.

    They were still upholding prophecy about 1914 marking Armageddon in 1922, 8 years later. They claimed they were chosen by Christ in 1919. But, would Jesus choose those of whom he says:

    Matthew 7:15-20 — Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

    If you would know those false prophets by their fruits, by whether what proceeds from them is rotten or good, what would you say of those whose fruit has proved rotten every time they have prophesied in God's name? Would Jesus choose them as his representatives?


  • jgnat

    Good morning, Auld Soul. As I was googling around for end-time prophecy information, I came across this nugget.

    From the Christian perspective the doomsday scenario is more or less inevitable. The Jewish perspective is very different.

    Judaism teaches that all "good" prophecy will eventually come true. When? That depends on our actions -- we can either hasten or delay the Big Day depending on how we behave. "Bad" prophecy, on the other hand, is a warning. It's God's way of telling us to get our act together or else...

    So, in a nutshell relax, don't panic, the world won't end on New Year's Eve (although on the morning of January 1st, after too much champagne, some of us may wish that it had!)

  • onetwofour

    hey kerri

    the best thing to do is research. might take some time but its worth it

    Thanx guys for the info

  • RubaDub

    I can't recall the exact article but I believe the Laodicean Messenger represents the FedEx class of today.

    Rub a Dub

  • hamsterbait

    dedpoet -

    The WT has made itself a laughing stock in France, by changing the description in John 1:1 from "la parole etait dieu" to "la parole etait UN dieu."

    In French it is ungrammatical, and turns the phrase into a statement of number. (Obviously when Booklyn Brothel insisted on the change they didn't have any french speakers on the committee)


  • kep81


    Firstly i'd just like to say thanx to everyone. I have been doing so much research on the jws but its mainly just reading different things on the internet its good to be able to post what i got to say and have a few of you answer my questions and not just rely on jws for the answers. Someone mentioned about there being other churches that have bible studies well for me thats not possible i live in a mining town in the middle of nowhere with no churches or anything like that, the only reason that the jws come here is because one of them lives in my town. So i hope none of you mind me trying to get answers from you as i really cant ask anyone else or go to any other churches. If anyone doesnt mind can anyone tell me any info about how the figure a day isnt a normal day like we think. Also how do they get that jesus is michael and is he the only angel to be called archangel. thanx

  • kep81

    If you r no longer a jw and other jws are suppose to shun you now , were do they get that from does it say in the bible to do that if not is there some scriptures that dont directly say it but they believe say it.

  • onetwofour

    good question, trying making a new topic people will see this faster, the subject part

  • quango

    There isn't a central bible translation body as such - effectively anyone can translate & publish a bible. The New World translation is generally respected , and it does restore God's name in the text.

    To be honest , any question you pose here will get a negative response - this is basically a forum for ex-witnesses - so use your judgement when you read the replies.

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