Ozzie....I seem to remember you posting on that thread. Now it seem to have mysteriously disappeared. Did you post to that thread and then remove it, or am I losing my mind?
I think part of the reason why the responses here are as vigorous as they are is because many did not get a chance to tell thier families, friends, etc. what they really thought. They have been silenced or have lived years and years biting their tongues. It's a carthotic release. Finally someone Witness has to listen to what the poster has wanted to say for years and years.
People need to deal with their own pain, in their own way. I'm not going to lecture anyone on what they should or shouldn't do. Should we be the "bigger" person when someone shows up like that? Probably. But learning to stand up for yourself and voicing your dissent is an important part of becoming an ExJW that is emotionally stable, happy, and well adjusted. Given the rhetoric that the original poster barfed up, I think the thread stayed pretty tame.
After all, if we wanted nothing but fake love bombing, we could have stayed with the JW's.
Sometimes I just shake my head
by Lady Lee 52 Replies latest jw friends
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Enigma One
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DanTheMan
But learning to stand up for yourself and voicing your dissent is an important part of becoming an ExJW that is emotionally stable, happy, and well adjusted.
Well said. I read 3 or so pages of that thread and I don't see what all the fuss is about. Just people being people. As GetBusyLiving put it so well on an unrelated thread, as JW's we took it in the a$$ for so many years that we have little or no tolerance for crap, and that's a good thing.
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AK - Jeff
First, s/he titles her thread "Something I want to tell you apostates" which, in my opinion, is like whitey walking into a Black Panther rally, clearing their throat, and announcing loudly, "Something I want to tell you n**ga's." S/he alienated most of the forum with her title.
I think AS had a good point here. This person did not come here to 'make peace'. or seek to understand why her family member left the organization. S/he came here to attack - some, including myself may have let anger speak through our answer. For that I cannot apologize if a culprit, for I acted out of instinctive protection of my place in the world.
Some are much better at soothing words in these cases. There are as many levels of 'healing' on this forum as there are posters. Some have been able to just 'walk away' from the organization, others feel an emotional tug born of decades of indoctrination, yet others have been so wronged so as to hurt forever. How could we expect these various positional emotions to stay united for the best result? Further, how do we know what response will be the most effective in this case? No one can answer that. We can only answer what response would be the most effective for us!
I know of where I speak on this. My very first post on this forum was quickly ridiculed by two of the posters whom I now most respect here. I was feeling great sentimentality about the celebration of the Memorial, and at the same time, great anger about the WT lies regarding it. I suggested that all on this forum should go to the Memorial and partake, as Christ would have us do. I was accosted by those with longer time on the outside. It stung. But I was clearly out and not headed back. Today I make this forum part of my daily bread. Not much tenderness appeared in my first post. Not much coddling that I recall. I do not resent it today, nor rarely think of it, except this thread brought it to mind.
I don't know what works every time. No one else does either. And it is a 'discussion forum' is'nt it?
I would imagine that if the example AS mentioned here consisted of a large group of Martin Luther King's, there would still be some in that group who would instinctively react after the name-calling. I did. And for a little ole' white boy, I am about as MLK in attitude as you will find in my neighborhood.
That said, I do hope no damage was done.
Jeff
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MsMcDucket
Then don't read it!
Ozzie, thanks for your support.
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MsMcDucket
I think that when people like that come to the site and vent, then its no good venting back because all that does is convince them that what the wbts said about apostates is true and stops them from looking at any other material.
So are you suggesting that we agree with them. Saying something like "Yes, we are evil apostates.". That's going to make him come here and fellowship with us? I don't get it??
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Gill
I also think that we no longer feel that we 'shouldn't rock the boat' anymore.
We all did that in our JW days. More or less we were civilised to LB but that doesn't mean that LB has more right than the rest of us to express his feelings and that we should just quietly sit back and take it all. We've all 'done that, been there and bought the T shirt', but NOT any more.
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Finally-Free
So are you suggesting that we agree with them. Saying something like "Yes, we are evil apostates.". That's going to make him come here and fellowship with us? I don't get it??
I've said that a few times.
I think the best thing is for JWs to see us for what we are - normal people. And that's how we should treat them.
That being said, what kind of reception would a person get if he entered an unfamiliar place - a bar, restaurant, or stranger's home - and immediately began hurling accusations at people he's never met, calling them liars and accusing them of destroying his family? He should expect to get a sound asskicking. At the very least he would be ejected. That's the real world, which is something the JWs should learn to live in. They should learn that they can't go through life spewing insults and accusations at people and expect to be treated respectfully at the same time.
You only get as much respect as you give.
W
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Sassy
I have mixed feelings on this. I do agree that angry viscious replies are not a good thing. I think we need to think about how we respond and try to 'season' our replies..
However, I think we have been hurt enough by 'these' people and have a right to defend ourselves too.
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sf
This thread kicks serious ass.
AuldSoul...
People on their way in have families/friendships torn apart and people on their way out have families/friendships torn apart.
This, along with EVERYTHING you stated, I fully concur with. Especially this:
First, s/he titles her thread "Something I want to tell you apostates" which, in my opinion, is like whitey walking into a Black Panther rally, clearing their throat, and announcing loudly, "Something I want to tell you n**ga's." S/he alienated most of the forum with her title.
"...everyone welcome!" It says so right under Jehovahs-Witness.com Discussion forum in the upper left-hand corner. But JWs who have a beef should be able to abuse me for me stating my beliefs in a public environment DESIGNED for that purpose? Why? On what basis should I be required to suffer indignities that caused me to leave the organization in the first place? Where is my rationale for making him/her feel comfortable and at ease? If that is the case, I seriously misunderstood the purpose of this forum.
"I want you to know that you have destroyed a family..." is a lie. Apostates don't destroy families, Watchtower policies destroy families. People on their way in have families/friendships torn apart and people on their way out have families/friendships torn apart. JWs think that is what Christ meant when he said he came to put not peace, but a sword. If that is the case, it was Christ who destroyed his/her family, not apostates.
"...because of your lies about Jehovah and his organization" is another lie. People who leave because of the Internet, leave because they discover things they have been lied to about. If, as s/he [only] suspects, the Internet played a strong role in the relative leaving, then it was TRUTH he was discovering, not lies. Truth the organization has intentionally lied to its adherents about.
"A family member went apostate and has turned his back on Jehovah." This is possibly true, but possibly false. My parents believe I have turned my back on Jehovah, although I haven't. They equate the organization with Jehovah every time they infer that leaving the organization = leaving Jehovah. If you cancel "like terms" (Algebra 101) you get the simplified equation.
"I wanted to let you know that Jehovah still loves you and to please stop trying to actively take Jehovah's sheep out of the organization." I agree with the first part of this. I don't agree that a Web site is capable of actively taking anyone out of anything. The person HAS TO CHOOSE to go to the site. I don't agree that Jehovah has sheep today. The Bible says the sheep belong to the Fine Shepherd and his name is Jesus. I don't think Jesus would call as his sheep those who don't even recognize their owner's voice. (John 10:1-18)
"You don't know how this has wrecked our family." A lie. We do know. We have lived through our families wrecked, often more than once, by the policies of this heartless corporate entity.
"I will not come back to this board but you apostates need help." This is a discussion forum. S/he didn't come here to discuss anything, she came here to lecture and lie about ME, personally, publicly, and directly. And singly every other "apostate" who posts here. S/he wanted to shame ME for damage HIS/HER organization caused.
"If you want to stay out fine, but stop trying to take witnesses out." A directive. From a WT propagandist. Who spews the same baseless vitriol that his/her parent corporation vomits up.
Why should I calmly and mildly tolerate this on a public discussion forum where S/HE failed to observe even the most basic rules of decorum?
And what you say here is what grates on my nerves and I have a hard time mustering up ANY compassion:
In three ways s/he violated his/her own organization's edicts, (1) s/he actively sought out an apostate Web site, (2) s/he joined that Web site, and (3) s/he gave direct counsel to people s/he knew were likely Disfellowshipped/Disassociated. Most here should be dead to him/her. I am not upset that s/he disobeyed; I don't think that should be grounds for criticism of any kind. But I do think it is interesting that while openly defying the bOrg's rules s/he wants to hold people accountable to his/her standards of propriety, when even the bOrg has given up trying to get these very people to adhere to their standards.
I too enjoy your posts. In my opinion, you are very balanced when it comes to dealing with self righteous jws.
I sure would like to hear Gary Buss' thoughts. I'm positive I would absolutely fully concur with him as well.
Again, awesome thread.
sKally
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jeanniebeanz
Throwing anger right back on him does nothing to help.
Lady Lee,
I disagree. When I first posted on a discussion board I was just like this person. I got the shit flamed out of me! As horrible as it was, I could not look away. Here were people who were not sorry for leaving, were not shamed into submission, were happy to be out and were handing me my ass on a silver platter.
I turned red, I cried and was so blooming mad that I did not go back to the board for months. But, I thought about what every one of the people who posted had said, the positive loving 'lets be nice to this boob' comments and the 'get bent' posts alike. It was really an eye-opener.Some people had points, and you know what, it was the flamers who made me really think about my suppositions not the nice people.
Maybe I'm a difficult person to reach, maybe I need to be smacked in some way before I hear. But, I don't know if I would have stayed as interested in researching the teachings of the org if I had not received the flaming that I got.
And, NO, I'm not going to tell you all what my identity was for that post!
Jeannie