Sometimes I just shake my head (page 2)

ozziepost

"Do unto others as we would have them do unto us"

has become

"Do others before they do you".

LadyLee - As much as I sympathise with your point of view on this topic and the problems you have had losing your own JW family, I don't think poor old LB get too much of a hammering. I've just re read all the replys to him and I thought, apart from one or two, everyone was pretty well behaved. LB came across as the spounting maniacal JW and the replys were pretty tame for his accusations. Infact I'd go so far as to say, we were all pretty nice to him. What a nice bunch of folk we are at JWD!

So nice to have a post on 'Be nice to JWs...they can't help it!'

ozziepost

MsMcDucket:

what he did was came in here and fanned the fires of many who are hurting.

Sorry, but I don't see how the new poster fanned any flames. It only needed a bit of thought to have realised what was up and to have wisely responded or not.Being a (new) member of a db isn't license to say who should or shouldn't make a thread.

I don't need someone to come to the board to chastise me for not being a Witness, and I don't need to be made to feel shame because I disliked what the poster said and responded in kind.

Then don't read it!

I'm sure that by mature age we've learned by now that at times life sucks. We have to live it.

And give a helping hand along the way.

gumby

Gill,

I just also re-read the thread in most of it's entirety and thought the same as you. I thought ones here handled it pretty well and did a good job considering the accusations made toward 'apostates'. As you say, a few spoke pretty strong, but most others held composure and gave their "own" good witness concerning the organisation.

Gumby

Confession

Okay, GREAT topic. Lady Lee, thanks for starting it. This has been a point I've made many time, but from the responses I've gotten it's clear that we are not all of the same mind on this.

To me: it's clear what my role should be when a current JW comes to this board with words like Left Behind's. I see them as being like people submerged in their pods, in a sense unconscious but living through the Matrix (WTS.) I believe I may be in a position to help them--even though they don't know they need help. This doesn't mean I'm going to spend the rest of my life, dedicating all of my time to reaching JWs in this way. But it does mean that when they come here, I'm going to do what I think will have the greatest positive effect--not take out the residual anger I may have for the Watchtower Society on those who are merely under its spell.

Also to me: the worst possible thing that can happen is if what they find here validates what the WTS claims about those they brand as "apostates."

Will they sometimes irritate or even anger me? Sure. Can it take it? Yes, I can, especially when I am conscious of their mental enslavement. Will I let this cause me to post stuff that only--in the end--makes me feel good in the moment, but which further closes their minds to the truth about the WTS? I certainly hope not!

AuldSoul

Lady Lee,

I agree in general, in spirit. In this specific instance, I fully understand the reaction s/he got.

I personally do not post here to be the punching bag for someone who is filled with pain and hate and wants to take it out on someone who may very well have had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with what caused the pain and hate. I feel exactly the same on the issue of reparations, but that is an entirely different thread topic.

First, s/he titles her thread "Something I want to tell you apostates" which, in my opinion, is like whitey walking into a Black Panther rally, clearing their throat, and announcing loudly, "Something I want to tell you n**ga's." S/he alienated most of the forum with her title.

"...everyone welcome!" It says so right under Jehovahs-Witness.com Discussion forum in the upper left-hand corner. But JWs who have a beef should be able to abuse me for me stating my beliefs in a public environment DESIGNED for that purpose? Why? On what basis should I be required to suffer indignities that caused me to leave the organization in the first place? Where is my rationale for making him/her feel comfortable and at ease? If that is the case, I seriously misunderstood the purpose of this forum.

"I want you to know that you have destroyed a family..." is a lie. Apostates don't destroy families, Watchtower policies destroy families. People on their way in have families/friendships torn apart and people on their way out have families/friendships torn apart. JWs think that is what Christ meant when he said he came to put not peace, but a sword. If that is the case, it was Christ who destroyed his/her family, not apostates.

"...because of your lies about Jehovah and his organization" is another lie. People who leave because of the Internet, leave because they discover things they have been lied to about. If, as s/he [only] suspects, the Internet played a strong role in the relative leaving, then it was TRUTH he was discovering, not lies. Truth the organization has intentionally lied to its adherents about.

"A family member went apostate and has turned his back on Jehovah." This is possibly true, but possibly false. My parents believe I have turned my back on Jehovah, although I haven't. They equate the organization with Jehovah every time they infer that leaving the organization = leaving Jehovah. If you cancel "like terms" (Algebra 101) you get the simplified equation.

"I wanted to let you know that Jehovah still loves you and to please stop trying to actively take Jehovah's sheep out of the organization." I agree with the first part of this. I don't agree that a Web site is capable of actively taking anyone out of anything. The person HAS TO CHOOSE to go to the site. I don't agree that Jehovah has sheep today. The Bible says the sheep belong to the Fine Shepherd and his name is Jesus. I don't think Jesus would call as his sheep those who don't even recognize their owner's voice. (John 10:1-18)

"You don't know how this has wrecked our family." A lie. We do know. We have lived through our families wrecked, often more than once, by the policies of this heartless corporate entity.

"I will not come back to this board but you apostates need help." This is a discussion forum. S/he didn't come here to discuss anything, she came here to lecture and lie about ME, personally, publicly, and directly. And singly every other "apostate" who posts here. S/he wanted to shame ME for damage HIS/HER organization caused.

"If you want to stay out fine, but stop trying to take witnesses out." A directive. From a WT propagandist. Who spews the same baseless vitriol that his/her parent corporation vomits up.

Why should I calmly and mildly tolerate this on a public discussion forum where S/HE failed to observe even the most basic rules of decorum?

Lady Lee, I am not asking these questions rhetorically. If you have some reason that won't smack of the same basis for the false-faced "niceness" the bOrg recommends I would appreciate you sharing it.

On another note: In three ways s/he violated his/her own organization's edicts, (1) s/he actively sought out an apostate Web site, (2) s/he joined that Web site, and (3) s/he gave direct counsel to people s/he knew were likely Disfellowshipped/Disassociated. Most here should be dead to him/her. I am not upset that s/he disobeyed; I don't think that should be grounds for criticism of any kind. But I do think it is interesting that while openly defying the bOrg's rules s/he wants to hold people accountable to his/her standards of propriety, when even the bOrg has given up trying to get these very people to adhere to their standards.

AuldSoul

ozziepost

did a good job considering the accusations made toward 'apostates'

oh Grumbles! People's musta had worse than that to contend with in life! Seems to me that a whole crowd of people saw it as some kinda personal attack and responded.

To me, both is wrong. There's no need to respond after all.

Good grief, there's so much crap posted we'd be up all night!!

Mind you, reading through the thread, the points were pretty right on, but, like Lady Lee, I wonder whether it was the time and the place.

Cheers, Ozzie (reaching for a shiraz class)

AuldSoul

Lady Lee: When you think about it he can't very well blame the elders or the organization.

I disagree. S/he can, as in, s/he is capable of doing so. S/he chose a scapegoat instead, because her anger over the injustice causes her to need a culprit. I'll be damned if I'll smile while being accused of someone else's crime. Just my opinion.

AuldSoul

In my opinion, opinions should be valued at the recipient's discretion

Finally-Free

One of the first things the JWs taught me when I first became one was that I didn't have the right to defend myself when accused. I had to learn to simply shut my mouth and accept any abuse they chose to heap upon me. Now, more than two years after I disassociated myself, I have discovered that they continue to slander me in the community I grew up in - even to people who have never been JWs. I cannot walk through my old neighbourhood without getting dirty looks from my former non-JW neighbours. Most of them, even though they were never JWs, will not speak to me.

I don't keep my mouth shut any more. I reserve the right to respond to any JW in the same tone in which they address me.

W

gumby

People's musta had worse than that to contend with in life!

Dunno Ozzie. For a great many, the effects from being disfellowshipped and shunned are the worst thing the've contended with. This being the case, is it reasonable to expect these not to also voice their opinion? We have hundreds here with different emotional aches and pains and various tolerance levels....so to expect things not to get a bit riled is asking alot.

Gumby

Sometimes I just shake my head

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