Sect or cult?

by Cady 65 Replies latest jw friends

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  Cady

  Well I was away at friends for a bit and just caught up on this thread this morning.

  Proplog, I know at this point that nothing I can say will affect your thinking. But you know, I work everyday with kids who've been through the toughest stuff imaginable. That line about everybody going through the same level of stuff - bulls**t. Completely and totally. And so here's a scenario for you.

  I have a good life. I'm in college w/two jobs that are amazing; I get to work with some of the top research scientists in my field in the world. I will not for two moments give myself all the credit for coming from where I was - the love of dear people in my life and their kindness and compassion helped me greatly. So when I work with these kids I don't tell them to grow up, get over it. I don't minimize their pain. I let them talk and never shame them. And they open up to me and they attach, and they are able to have love which in their world is priceless and rare. Then they are open enough to listen to me, and I can see the changes they make after we talk. They think my life is great and they know I've been through tough stuff and they see that as a hope - Cady's made it, so can I. But they will not attach or open up or trust me if I berate them.

  Sorry, but at this point you've tapped into that maternal instinct of protection I have for the children I work with. Tell me to grow up and toughen up and whatever sh*t you want to say, but the fact that I don't ever repeat that ideal for life to these children is part of what gives them a chance. Oh, or maybe you should have tried that with the people who went through Hurricane Katrina - you know, you were in a boat rescuing people and turned over a bloated body and it was your pregnant fiancee - get over it already. The man who told me that couldn't even say her name for the physical pain he was in of just enduring that memory.

  I don't know what made you so hardened and cold, but I am so sorry for you. I just feel really bad. You can get mad and yell at me, whatever you want, and I'm not reviewing and editing this post b/c I have 18 hours of work ahead of me today so I don't really have the time. And I imagine you're all defensive and you won't think for 2 seconds about anything I've written other than where the weak points are that you can rip apart. But I'm hoping that someone who might be thinking similarly will soften a little to what people have gone through; it's so easy to tell someone "get your s**t together" - it's much harder to hold their hand encourage them as they do so, to stay by their side as they work their way through life.

  I ask for no pity in my life, and I accept none. But I do demand of anyone I allow near these kids I love that they treat them w/respect and empathy. They show such to each other, btw. I'm sorry you can't have the kindness in your heart that a 13-year old who's beat to within an inch of his life has for another child.
• 

  proplog2

  Cady:

  I never prescribed a specific dosage of "reality". Some need reality at the "tough sh*t" level. Some need a homeopathic dose. You might say "let's talk about the people who have treated you badly and see if you might find a way to forgive them".
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  Lady Lee

  You know what? Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree
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  DannyHaszard

  Steve Hassan on CBS news biggie Spotting Teens Who Are Into Cults
  CBS News - USA
  ... Hassan, who's a former cult leader himself and now counsels families on how to get people out of cults, points to numerous warning signs that someone may be CBS) The Pamela Vitale murder has drawn renewed attention to the world of cults.
  
  Former classmates say suspect Scott Dyleski was showing signs of leaning to the Goth side. Dyleski, 16, is to be tried as an adult in the brutal slaying of Vitale, wife of celebrity attorney Daniel Horowitz.
  
  It's not clear whether Dyleski was a cult member.
  
  But numerous problems for him on the home front, including the death of his 18-year-old sister in a traffic accident, seemed to send him spiraling toward the Goth world, former classmates say.
  
  "Frankly," cult expert Steven Hassan of the Freedom of Mind Center tells co-anchor Rene Syler on The Early Show , "any major life trauma, death of a loved one, divorce, breakup in a relationship, moving to a new city, state or country, major illness, can really disrupt a person's identity and sense of reality. Especially with a young person, the sudden death of a loved one, without proper and appropriate counseling, can drive someone into a radical personality change."
  
  Hassan, who's a former cult leader himself and now counsels families on how to get people out of cults, points to numerous warning signs that someone may be getting into cults: personality changes, radical appearance changes, avoiding time with family, and trying to convert others.
  
  He says those patterns sound like typical teenage behavior, but parents should take note of them in any event.
  
  "As far as I know," he says, "the information on this particular (Dyleski) case, there's no evidence that there's a specific cult or any undue influence of some other person on him. And young people, as they evolve their identity, experiment with different things.
  
  "And I don't believe that the Goth look is, in any way, a destructive cult. It's kind of a subculture and a reaction to society.
  
  "But, clearly, this (Dyleski) is a troubled person. I think the disruption in his parents' marriage, and stepparents … And, obviously, he wasn't communicating what was going on with them and wasn't getting the help that he really needed. We don't know if he was using drugs. We don't know more details about this.
  
  "But I can definitely tell you families need to be alert, (get) preventive education, letting young people know, especially, that there's no instant friends. Become a researcher. Understand that destructive cults are out there. They don't tell you what they believe and what they want from you.
  
  "And take a curious, yet concerned posture. Don't be hysterical. Don't say, 'Are you in a cult?' But say, 'I'd like to meet your friends. Is there anything I can read or any meetings I can go to?' Don't overreact, but be alert."
  ©MMV, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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  Euphemism

  I know I'm a bit late to the party, but I just saw this thread now.

  Under Rutherford, the Witnesses did have a single, all-controlling leader whose actions were beyond theological questioning. Russell had similar super-theological authority, but it wasn't until Rutherford that some of the other characteristics--especially totalistic control (#4)--came into play.

  And most of the Witnesses' current cult-like characteristics--disfellowshipping, the idea that the entire "world" is part of "Satan's organization", the obsessive focus on door-to-door preaching and numbers--date back to Rutherford's presidency.

  So perhaps the Witnesses are a zombie cult: what a cult turns into when the head dies but the body lives on.
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  jula71

  
  Here's some interesting definitions I came across:

  The American Family Foundation defined cults as:
  
  "A group or movement exhibiting great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea, or thing, and employing unethical manipulative or coercive techniques of persuasion and control (e.g. isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgment, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of leaving it), designed to advance the goals of the group’s leaders, to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families or the community."

  The sociological definition includes such things as “ as authoritarian leadership patterns, loyalty and commitment mechanisms, lifestyle characteristics, (and) conformity patterns (including the use of various sanctions in connection with those members who deviate)”

  I find the second one interesting, "use of various sanctions in connection with those members who deviate". Sound familiar?