Sect or cult? (page 5)

proplog2

Auld Soul:

There are indeed unfortunate consequences for some people who have been abused. Abuse doesn't result in trauma for everyone. Some people are extremely sensitive by nature. They need special help. The cure is in objectively facing reality. And they need special counseling to help them get a beach-head on the rest of their life. The language of victimology may make a person feel better but they remain a victim until they can face reality.

I have never known of an organization (business, charity, family, government etc.) that doesn't impinge on people's freedom. It is always a balancing act between self & other. Getting unplugged from the Matrix should relieve tension even though it has its own difficulties.

The worst organizations are those intent on killing people ie. mostly governments.

The worst thing JW's do that even comes close to that is their stand on blood. It encourages people to die. But other religions do their share of encouraging their members to die for their country. Both are wrong.

Reality is the universal cure.

heathen

But other religions do their share of encouraging their members to die for their country.

Good point there, but not just that ,they encourage members to kill in the name of God and country . Let's face it , we are all going to die in this world but we all have a choice to live peacefully or wreak havok and I think the christian ideal is to live peacefully . The blood doctrine of the WTBTS is nothing but dogma , just because the apostle John said to abstain from blood does not mean it includes blood transfusions , he was talking about the blood puddings and such that the pagans enjoyed . I've seen some good counter arguments on this and am convinced that blood transfusion is not against bible principle but letting somebody die while you stand by and do nothing is . You might as well drink the kool aid at that point .It's pure suicide to deny medical procedures that can save your life . I don't think a church should have access to peoples medical history , it's none of their friggen bees wax , to put it plainly . The bible also ecourages people not to meddle in each others affairs . 1st timothy 5:13

vitty

I used to get so mad when I was accused of being in a cult, the cheeky buggers, anyway theyd be laughing on the other side of their face when a fireball comes and strikes them up the arse

But I must say I was in the org for 20 of my adult years and never felt abused, frustrated, worthless yes, until life change and my rosy life wasnt rosy anymore, then I tasted abuse and I didnt suffer it for long.....I left.

Sorry im rambling im on the malt !

heathen

vitty --- what kind of abuse ? It's only when you step forward and tell your story that we can learn about the dangers of these cults . That's why I say they are satanic because they lie about the conditions and the abuse that takes place rather than make those responsible accountable . Rather than apologize to victims of the abuse they condemn you for even mentioning it happened or accuse you of being a liar . Their cheezy 2 witness rule has probly harmed more people than helped .

AuldSoul

Proplog2, the reality is always cause and effect.

Always.

In my opinion (as an abuse survivor), admitting the present and excusing the past is stupid. Understanding the past is critical to growing from it instead of being crippled by it. But understanding is not an immediate thing. And that is why people blame the past for where they are. Until they can fully grasp where they are it is very difficult to grow beyond it.

I hope I am putting down something you are bright enough to pick up.

When it comes to emotional hurt you had better admit that it is your catastrophizing that makes things unbearable. You can choose to call something "unfortunate" or you can blow it up and call it "terrible".

BLUNTNESS WARNING: Tell that to a formerly bright-eyed, happy six-year-old boy with a reamed arse. Tell that to a 21-year-old man who is finally coping with it. Tel that to a 33-year-old man who is finally admitting that it isn't something you can ever get over, per se.

You gave only two alternatives, and in your world that may make sense. Another alternative is you could recognize it for what it is, "TERRIBLE!!!"

You don't have all the answers, either. I agree with your theory on overcoming victimization but I KNOW it takes time. And there is always a period of being a victim. And that time is different for everyone.

And, this self-righteous organization IS A CULT. And, IT damaged me. Do you disagree? Have you lived in my world (empathy), or are you just putting yourself in my place (sympathy)?

AuldSoul

The worst organizations are those intent on killing people i.e. mostly governments.

BELIEVE it when I tell you there are worse things than death.

AuldSoul

{edit: I am sorry if this comes across badly to you proplog, but reality drives people to commit suicide every year. You ought to contemplate that more carefully the next time you want to post a panacea. Some realities should not be accepted, some realities are terrible.}

proplog2

Auld Soul:

You are no longer a six year old child with a sore ass. You are a 33 year old man with a memory of being sexually assaulted.

Some get over this experience. Some don't. Some have to work very hard to de-sensitize their habitual responses of thought and feelings. Some don't have to work at it hardly at all.

But if you really believe that living with a memory of a bad experience is worse than death then you need to re-evaluate your situation in the direction of reality.

Don't ever think that YOUR particular problem gives you license to beat people over the head with it. That's what I mean by victimology. Example: (If you don't have empathy for my miserable life than you are an asshole.)

Everyone goes through tough times in their lives. The world is a big ol nasty place where a lot of sh*t happens. And people live noble lives in spite of it.

Remember everyone goes through things just as bad as you experienced.

AuldSoul

proplog, no one ever "gets over" sexual assault. No one ever "gets over" severe or prolonged emotional trauma. They learn to manage the effects, but it still affects them. For the rest of their lives.

Remember everyone goes through things just as bad as you experienced.

Bullsh!t.

I don't have a miserable life. I cope. I manage. And I find intense delight in life. I am not a victim. At 21 I decided not to be anymore, I decided that since the two guys who assaulted me probably would remain unaffected by any of my pain, that I shouldn't give in to it. Of course, I only remembered that it had happened at age 17.

Don't ever think that YOUR particular problem gives you license to beat people over the head with it.

My particular problems in life allow me to empathize with those who have not yet learned to cope and not to minimize the suffering I have never experienced. You apparently have not learned much empathy from your experiences.

Example: (If you don't have empathy for my miserable life than you are an asshole.)

If you don't have empathy you are an asshole. I don't have a miserable life. You are still an asshole.

AuldSoul

proplog2, if you think that cult fighters are short sighted fools, why do you choose to post in response to them?

Your responses makes it apear that you are fighting cult fighters, which seems more short sighted and foolish, because you acknowledge up front that you believe yourself to be tilting at dolts (who may as well be windmills). Wouldn't that be a waste of your intellectual prowess and humanistic acumen?

I believe that those who are susceptible to cult mentality should be protected—by those who are not susceptible—from those who would abuse them. Does that make no sense to you? Then feel free to believe differently.

It is possible to actually be damaged from life, whether you choose to believe that or not.

AuldSoul

proplog2

Auld Soul:

Irrationality is the basis of what is generally labeled "cult" thinking.

There is money in the anti-cult business. There is power and fame in the anti-cult business. There are anti-cult gurus.

It was a business that grew up out of the wallets of the middle-class whose kids were examining their parents shallow values.

By the way - what do you call a relgion that engages in ritualistic mutilation of peoples sexual organs?

Sect or cult?

Share this