Well here's the thing there is plenty of evidence that rutherford was a drunk, there is plenty of evidence that Russell was a loonie con man! However it's really irrelevant. If you sat down and read what these two nut cases taught and then you started telling people that as 'truth' they would toss you out of the JWs in a NY second. So what does it matter? They talk about their hallowed founders but they don't believe ANY of the things that these people believed and taught.
How could have Rutherford been a 'drunk'?
by wholewheat 99 Replies latest jw friends
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Balsam
Wholewheat,
I became a JW in 1971 and was told about JW's having a tendency to drink and that one of the past presidents of the WTBTS was an alcoholic or most believed he was and that was Judge Rutherford. This was told to us by the couple who studied with us. We never asked this information it was simply stated when we were at a gathering and their were many old ones there who had been witnesses all their lives and nodded agreement. I thought at the time that was a peculiar but really didn't give it much thought. Over the years my husband and I knew several witnesses that drank daily but never admitted alcoholism. Now when the mid 80's rolled around articles began coming out talking about alcoholism and how witnesses need to watch their consumption. Prior to that there was little or nothing said about alcoholic drinks. So a change from excessive drinking or drinking freely of alcohol was discouraged in the 1980's which was a huge change from my husband and I came in. Smoking was done away with in the mid 70's then later alcohol was discouraged. That was my experience during the time I was in the organization. I can't speak for now but as I recall it was pretty common knowlege that Judge Rutherford was given to drinking a lot in his day.
Sincerely,
Ruth
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kurtbethel
How could have Rutherford been a 'drunk'?
Easy. Excessive alcohol consumption.
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The Almighty Homer
I'm still amazed that such a corrupt wack job like Rutherford was drunk or not , could actually be a president
and governing ruler of religious organization that had over a million devoted adherents.
You might say he took them all for a ride in his glorious Cadillac.
Religion can truly be a profitable capitalist venture.
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Leolaia
The Olin Moyle trial made frequent reference to drinking at Bethel. In his testimony to the court, Moyle described new Bethelites being broken into the habit of drinking beer (p. 359) and the frequent use of beer and "stronger stuff" by the factory staff in the evening (p. 360). He mentioned an incident in which an intoxicated factory worker rang an alarm bell repeatedly late at night as a joke (pp. 361-362). His wife Phoebe Moyle described seeing many empty liquor and whiskey bottles in the rooms at Bethel where she worked as a housekeeper (p. 1587), and she said she was teased by the brothers inside the elevator, who said that she couldn't take her liquor (p. 186). Olin also related how when he was in the elevator, "the boys would remark there, make allusions, wish they had a barrel of beer around, how nice it would be to have a barrel of beer" (p. 359). In his public letter to Rutherford (dated 7/21/1939), Olin wrote that "one can't be a real Bethelite without drinking beer" and "under your tutelage there has grown up a glorification of alcohol and condemnation of total abstinence...You have publically labelled total abstainers as prudes and therefore must assume your share of responsibility for the Bacchus-like attitude exhibited by members of the family" (pp. 1736-1737).
With respect to Rutherford himself, Olin's son Peter stated that "it has also been known, albeit carefully 'covered', that Rutherford liked his women and his whiskey" (published in the December 1972 United Israel Bulletin). Canadian branch overseer Walter Salter, in a letter to Rutherford (dated 4/1/1937), declared that "I, at your orders, would purchase cases of whiskey at $60.00 a case, and cases of brandy and other liquors, to say nothing of untold cases of beer. A bottle or two of liquor would not do; it was for THE PRESIDENT and nothing was too good for THE PRESIDENT. He was heaven's favorite, why should not he have everything that would gratify his desire for comfort". Salter did not charge just alcohol consumption but excessive consumption, and declared his own role in importing liquor from Canada (probably during Prohibition). An official response to this letter was published by Clayton J. Woodworth in the 5/5/1937 issue of the Golden Age. He did not question the factualness of Salter's statements but rather justified Rutherford's liquor consumption:
"It is nothing new that Jesus and His followers are accused of being winebibbers. Did that charge affect in any way Jesus' standing with His heavenly Father? Not an iota. Why did Jesus use it? He was under great nervous strain. It provided a perfect nutrient, immediately assimilable. A chiropractor, once treating Judge Rutherford and the writer at the same time, said to the judge, as he saw his back suffering from ankylosis (six vertebrae fused together by pneumonia), 'You are a miracle of God's grace.' At the same time he said to the writer, 'He is bearing a burden that would utterly crush you.' Read that paragraph twice, and make the most of it, all you hypocrites that wish to remain hypocrites to the end. You will get your wish, and your reward."
It is significant that Woodworth, who is strident in his polemic and who would not hesitate to accuse Salter of lying, concedes Salter's claims but justifies Rutherford's frequent use of alcohol by (1) comparing Rutherford to Jesus, and (2) giving a medical reason for the alcohol use. He calls Salter a hypocrite not for making up facts about Rutherford's drinking but for finding fault with it. Because Woodworth was a hostile witness, what he tacitly admits is quite credible. Woodworth indicates that Rutherford was self-medicating for pain (as he was suffering "under great nervous strain" like Jesus) and it appears that alcohol was prescribed by his San Diego chiropractor Alta Eckols to treat his condition. Woodworth's statements suggest that Rutherford believed that the amount of alcohol he drank was not immoderate given his serious physical condition. Perhaps it would be immoderate for the average person who did not suffer with the pain that Rutherford suffered, but Rutherford apparently felt that his condition justified the amount of alcohol he drank in order to treat it, or that God made allowances for his lack of moderation. A series of Watchtower articles published in 1929, in fact, expressed a similar view. In the 3/15/1929 Watchtower, Rutherford wrote that people who give into "weaknesses of the flesh" are "powerless to resist" such weaknesses and "do not desire to oppose or misrepresent God ... their hearts are not wicked.... God pities the sinners and makes allowances for their weakness" (pp. 93-95). Then in the 9/1/1929 Watchtower, he wrote that the Devil had misled people to believe that "swearing, committing adultery, getting drunk, or losing one's temper, or any other of the long list of fleshly weaknesses" constitute sin unto death, but he averred that "all these things are forgiveable. This explains why David could be a man after God's own heart. His heart was loyal, but his flesh was weak" (p. 271).
Jim Penton reported a number of accounts by those who knew Rutherford, including an elderly woman in San Diego who "sold him great quantities of liquor when he came to purchase medicines in her husband's drugstore", and former Bethelites who "recount tales of his inebriation and druken stupors" (Penton, Apocalypse Delayed, 1997, pp. 72-73). He also mentions an interview he conducted in April 1972 with Frank Wainright, late Secretary-Treasurer of the IBSA of Canada, wherein Wainright reported the illegal importation of liquor from the Canadian branch office to Bethel during Prohibition. Penton also talked with Carl Prosser from Winnipeg, Manitoba, who attended the 1927 convention in Toronto, where Rutherford railed against Big Business. According to Prosser, Rutherford was so drunk that the staff had a hard time getting him to the lecturn but once there, he delivered the talk compentently. Moreover Penton met a man who once belonged to the Buffalo, New York, congregation who had a picture of Rutherford in Europe drunk posing with casks of wine; there is also the well-known photo of Rutherford and the beer keg. Although not clearly instances of drunken rages, Olin Moyle mentioned in his testimony that Rutherford had violent outbursts, including one incident when he threw a chair across "the whole length of the room" (p. 1597).
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reniaa
hearsay, exageration and the accusations of bitter apostates from the past who had clear axes to grind like olin or his family, are not proof. We know rutherford drank booze but biblically that isn't a crime only being a drunkard. It's easy to fall into the trap o fthinking "there is no smoke without fire".
All we have here is the fact judge rutherford drank alcohol beyond that is speculation and possibly the strong feelings of teatotal brothers against any sort of alcohol consumption from feelings promoted by the prohibition era.
Reniaa
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Farkel
reniaa,
:All we have here is the fact judge rutherford drank alcohol beyond that is speculation and possibly the strong feelings of teatotal brothers against any sort of alcohol consumption from feelings promoted by the prohibition era.
You're either very uninformed or you are lying.
A woman who owned the liquor store nearest to Beth Sarim in San Diego stated that Rutherford "was one of her biggest purchases of liquor." She was NOT an apostate.
Fred Franz stated to another Bethelite that "they built Beth Sarim just to get the drunken and declining Rutherford out of New York." He was NOT an apostate. Well, he WAS a REAL apostate, but that is another matter.
Dozens and dozens of people who were still JWs testfied that Bethel was a HUGE drinking culture and lots of problems as a result. They were NOT apostates. Why would Rutherford have allowed that "culture" if he wasn't a part of it?
Other Bethelites have stated that new boys who don't drink are ridiculed and taunted into joining the drinkers so as not to be different.
There are many stories of Rutherford being drunk at the podium.
Rutherford died of colon cancer, a common result of alcohol abuse.
Rutherford called Prohibition a law from SATAN. Why would he do that if that law didn't interfere with his big hobby?
What about the letters from Olin Moyle and Walter Salter, which were written while they were STILL at Bethel regarding Rutherford excesses with alcohol; letters which talked about trips to Canada to buy CASES of illegal booze for Rutherford of the highest quality? They were not apostates then, either.
There is much more, so get yer head out of the sand. Or keep you head in the sand and breath deeply.
Farkel
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AllTimeJeff
Reinna, does it matter to you at all that Woodworth had to defend Rutherfords heavy drinking in the Golden Age, the predecesor to AWAKE? And also, why is this information not available to Jehovah's Witnesses via WT Library? Because by their own references in magazines from the 20's, 30's and 40's, it shows a man, Rutherford, who was both a political curryer of favors, an alcoholic, a womanizer, and a slanderer of people who called him out on his hypocrisy. (see: Olin Moyle)
hearsay, exageration and the accusations of bitter apostates from the past who had clear axes to grind like olin or his family, are not proof.
Oh, I see. "Apostates" can't point these matters out, because we have axes to grind, but Jehovah's Witnesses can point out the sins of churches and their leaders that are hundreds of years old, in the name of truth. Whats the difference?
Either JW's are shit stirrers who go door to door with axes to grind for "exposing" false religion, or they are interested in truth.
Either former JW's are shit stirrers who post on the internet with axes to grind for "exposing" the Governing Body, or they are interested in truth.
You can't have your bullsh*t cake and eat it too.
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JustHuman14
Will you give us a break Renaia...the Olyn Molin case is a REAL FACT about Booze Jo he was abusive and had a problem with booze...end of story...
I just go really-really tired hearing the same old crap from people like you...the easy way is to blame the "apostates"...
WT has destroyed thousands of lifes in many ways, WT is guilty for false prophesies, dogmas that they change from time to time, scandals starting from their first president Russell, just to name a few, and all you can say is the "bitter apostates"...
GIVE US BREAK....
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reniaa
Gossip and hearsay are powerful weapons easily falling into exageration. Michael jackson also suffered this even paying settlements because of public arena gossip when the child involved actually denied any abuse as an adult.
You would have to show me he was arrested a few times for drunken disorderliness before this particular gossip sticks.
Remind me guys to accuse anyone who has colon cancer of being an alcoholic they must love that!
Reniaa
