(NOTE: I have some questions I need answered at the bottom of this post, regarding this conversation) Also, the previous info on our conversations can be found here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/9/96258/1.ashx
TONIGHT
Had another fairly non-tense conversation tonight. Although I was a little more unbending on a couple of sticking points on 607 vs. 586.
My wife brought it up first tonight. She has been researching a lot today I imagine - which is really great. But ...
She basically said she thinks it is getting much clearer in her head regarding 607 and that tonight's book study where it talks about King Nebuchadnezzar bceoming a WORLD ruler in 605 is probably where secular chronology is getting confused.
(Yes ... I know this is B.S., but bear with me.)
She still came back to secular history vs reliable bible chronology. Several times I would make points and she would say, "But that's SECULAR history vs RELIABLE BIBLE CHRONOLOGY."
I almost wanted to pull out the big guns and grab my folder of all the research, but I am saving that. Plus there is some stuff that I still haven't been able to print out yet. Even more I am still a bit unclear on.
I would like her to know the dates forwards and backwards for when it really gets down to the wire.
She keeps saying it is because RELIABLE BIBLE CHRONOLOGY. She says the 20 year difference is because SECULAR chronology and RELIABLE BIBLE CHRONOLOGY differ by twenty years for the birth (or death - I don't remember) of Adam.
I asked her to show me this reliable bible chronology and how they could biblically come up with that date. She shuffled through the pages on Chronology in the insight book and showed me the charts. I asked her to show me the one that pertains to this time period. She turned there.
I said, "See, it almost appears as if they are starting at a predetermined date - 607 - and working backwards. Because no bible dictionaries or any evidence is available that these kings ruled at the times the Society says they did."
She said, well ... it is RELIABLE BIBLE CHRONOLOGY vs secular history - and secular history doesn't say for sure.
I asked her why the Society would use the Nabonidus chronicle for proof of 539, but ignore the same proof of 586. I told her I was having a hard time figuring that reason out.
She countered with: "But no one knows exactly HOW LONG Evil-Merodach ruled - historians are only guessing at two years... josephus even suggested 18 yrs. and if Josephus is right it would account for that missing twenty years."
I said, "That doesn't really matter though because RELIABLE BIBLE CHRONOLOGY actually says that the 18th Yr of Nebuchadnezzar was 586 .... so we know it was in between 586 and 539 that he ruled. . . . . they could have nothing but Evil Merodach's name ONLY and it wouldn't matter because it would have to be sometime between 586 and 539."
She said - but that wouldn't match up with the reign of Jehoiachin and Zedekiah and stuff.
I said, none of the Bible Dictionaries I have read - and I've read about EVERY ONE available at the library and at Barnes & Noble, and none of their dates match up with the Society's on most of the Israel/Judean kings. (This is important for later ... that I make this point on the bible dictionaries.)
Then she said she will have to wait until her dad comes back with the BABYLON THE GREAT HAS FALLEN book. (Note: This BABYLON THE GREAT HAS FALLEN book actually misquotes a bible dictionary and says that the dictionary verifies the WT years for Zedekiah ... but it doesn't! And AlanF sent me the scans to PROVE IT!)
I said, "Couldn't we get the BABYLON THE GREAT HAS FALLEN book from somewhere else? Do we know anyone that has one?"
She said, "I'm not sure ... maybe at the Kingdom Hall library? But my dad says it had the BEST explanation he ever read, and it spelled it out pretty well, and he never understood why they never printed something like that again."
I said, "How OLD is that book anyways? It seems kind of weird that is the most RECENT good explanation by the Society on this."
She said, "Well probably because nobody really is interested in that kind of info."
I said, "Well it seems like it is pretty important info, especially since the Governing Body places their ENTIRE authority in it."
Then I again told her about the business documents - thousands ... that were unearthed FROM THAT TIME PERIOD. I showed her where the Society mentions them in the Insight book even and told her that in the appendix to the "Let Your Kingdom Come" book it actually says that all these documents point to 586 - albeit in a roundabout and wordy way. Then I said, and one or two paragraphs after that the appendix in the "Kingdom Come" book says something like, "But this is not to say that there MIGHT be some evidence that is as-yet uncovered that supports 607."
Then I asked her "Why they would base their ENTIRE authority on evidence that MIGHT turn up sometime in the future? That seems a pretty shaky foundation."
(For those not familiar ... this is the ROOT of the issue ... the GB's authority.)
She said, "Yeah, if there are thousands of business documents written AT THAT TIME, it does seem like a lot of good evidence."
Yes!
At this point i wanted to make sure we didn't blow up into the kind of discussion we will inevitably have - so I kind of tried to wrap it up and said something like (I'm paraphrasing):
"It just has seemed strange to me as I do this research that I am finding literally THOUSANDS of records showing that the destruction of Jerusalem was NOT in 607 BC, including every bible dictionary written by religious zealots who are often at odds with archeology - and they all say the 18th year of King Nebuchadnezzar's reign was in 586/87."
I tried playing up the point the whole conversation that if it is RELIABLE BIBLE CHRONOLOGY how come NOT ONE BIBLE DICTIONARY assigns the destruction of Babylon at 607, and all assign the destruction at 586/87.
At this point I had been playing sick all night to get out of going to the meeting tonight. (CO Visit.) So I started complaining about my stomach again. D@mn I hate being deceptive.
Questions:Does anyone have some good online info on the thousands of business documents? Sons of Egibis? etc? Someplace that DOESN'T look apostate? Something I can SHOW HER? She has been researching on the Internet ... so apparently the Internet holds some weight/authority for her ...
Does anyone have anymore info on the Babylon the Great has fallen book? I am preparing for that firestorm in a couple of weeks.
The only secular history book my wife has is the Complete Works of Josephus. How can I get rid of Josephus as a reckoning force quickly and easily?
-ithinkisee