Conditional love

noidea

Being raised a JW sometimes you feel you only know conditional love. You are only loved if you tow the line. I only have one thing to say,

"I just want to be loved is that so wrong?"

blondie

How about being in a family when you finally toe the line, they move the line.

Noidea, I found that love starts with yourself...which sounds simplistic. And if you are a person who believes in God, starts with knowing that God and Jesus don't ask anyone's opinion on earth about whether we are lovable...they already know what we are and love us anyway. In fact, they loved us before we even were.

"It's all right now. I've learned my lesson well.
You know you can't please everyone, So you've got to please yourself."

RealElder

Unconditional love is great, as long as it is not used as an excuse to condone unacceptable behavior. Many feel that Jesus had unconditional love for all sinners, but that is just not the case. He often rebuked and condemened individuals for their actions, not simply excuseing them because he loved them. Jesus and Jehovah love the word of mankind, but not everyone is going to be saved are they?

On the other hand, we must show love wherever possible, never judging people, that's God's job although to many witnesses take on that task for themselves.

think41self

Noidea,

To answer your question...NO, there is NOTHING wrong with wanting to be loved unconditionally. I think that is a normal human desire. Doesn't every baby born want and need to be loved and accepted by its family regardless of its skin color, height, looks, physical deformities...whatever. That is unconditional love in its purest and simplest form. Never give up in your search for it! It is out there.

Blondie said you have to love yourself first...that is true. Many times if one never received love growing up, one may find it very difficult to love oneself. Reading self help books, and perhaps therapy, could help one overcome this.

RealElder, your ratiionalization of the supposed explanation of "God's love" makes me glad I do not look for love from that source. That is like saying you love your son and your daughter...but if your daughter gets pregnant without being married you would expect that she AND her baby deserve to die. But if your son got a girl pregnant before marriage, you just say to him "Well son, we're all human and make mistakes. Just marry her and make it right. God will forgive you." This is exactly the kind of conflicting and illogical reasoning people use who say God loves the world so much...that is why he has to destroy most of it.

Love is like trust...you can't think you have a little bit, but are only willing to go so far! If that is the case, then it ISN'T trust! The same with love, you either love them or you don't. That simple.

think41self

"When agnostics die, do they go to the great perhaps"?

Stephanus

Is it just me, or are there a lot more Dub apologists crawling out from under their rocks onto this board? This RealElder (is that like a Real Man? Do you eat quiche, Mr Elder Sir? Please don't get me Mr Elder!) appears at the same time as we've had Carlo and his link to his lying webpage appear, Greg Stafford is roaming the halls in his latest incarnation, "Mario Kempes" attempts to cloud the paedophilia issue, OldHippy keeps putting his 2c worth (and it's overpriced, belive me!) NYTelecom doesn't know which way to jump and Fred is just being his normal dickhead self. I'm surprised YK and Friday aren't here, but as the old saying goes "Speak of the Devil and he appears" - they'll be here soon.

Q: How do you know a Dub loyal to "Jehovah's Organisation" is lying?
A: Their lips are moving.

FreePeace

I would like to know what a "Real Elder" is doing on this board. If he were a real elder, he wouldn't be on this board.

I can only hope that "RealElder" is a "Real Man" and on his way out, just the way so many us Real Elders did.

Just a word to the wise RealElder: Please be careful of bible thumping bullshit. Many, if not most of us, discarded the Bible, religion, and the "God-Concept" because they are all contrary to provable reality.

Since all of us have been hurt so deeply by the bORG, our bullshit meters are extremely sensitive. Don't try to get away with much. If you do, there are many here who will "burn you at the stake."

If you are on your way out of the bORG, then welcome. And if not, then what in the hell is taking you so long?

FP

"The World is my country, and to do good, my religion." --Thomas Paine

Visit my Websites:
TruthQuest: http://beam.to/truthquest

Empower the Spirit: http://www.EmpowerTheSpirit.com

noidea

My good friends, I didn't mean to sound like I was unloved.

It was really the guy from Saturday Night Live that happened to pop into my head and wondered if he was raised a JW. lol

Real Elder, may you have peace
(sorry guys, that just popped into my head also)

I think that you have things a little mixed up . I think that you have unconditional love and condoning of wrongdoing in the same category. They are not the same.

If you are in the org. it seems that you are loved as long as you conform to belief. I'm not talking about going out and whopping it up I am talking about not being loved when you disagree with something. If you don't play the game by the rules. The rules being you are not allowed to think unless you are told what to think.

I am not asking for an excuse for sin, I am asking for some room not to turn away from Jehovah but to try and establish a relationship with him. Something I have never been able to accomplish as a JW. I have always been so busy worrying about the org that I haven't stopped to worry about Jehovah. They are not the same.

RealElder

Thanks noidea for the kind expression and peace to you. Yes, I am a real elder and no I am not on the way out. However, there is much work to be done in order for this organization to live up to the high standards God sets for those using his name to identify themselves. I have learned a lot from reading the posts on this board and can see that there is a lot of pain out there felt by current and x-dubs. Much of it unjustly delievered to those ones. How about giving me a chance to learn and improve my skills as a shepard? It is only by honest and open communication (granted, not something completed embraced by the Society) that any of us in leadership positions can learn what we need to do to improve the condition so many of our congregations are in.

The point I was trying to get across with regard to love is that while we should all love on another, we can't let that blind us to the harm some do to themselves and others. It is entirely possible to love someone and still want nothing to do with them!

gsark

"It is entirely possible to love someone and still want nothing to do with them!"

NO IT IS NOT!!!!!

Life is a roller coaster. Get in, sit down, shut up and hang on!

larc

Real Elder,

I think you raise some interesting and important questions. I don't think there is such a thing as unconditional love. I think all love has its limits. I do believe, however, that for most who have left the organization, the limits of love and acceptance have expanded. You probably consider that a bad thing.

Your discussion dwells on the wrong doing of the individual, and when we have to decide when we love them, but want nothing to do with them. Let me ask you an analogous question. When do you decide that an organization has done enough wrong, that you no longer want to have anything to do with it? That is a personal question that each individual has to come to grips with.

Conditional love

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