OMIGOSH! John 5:39, 40...

by AGuest 64 Replies latest watchtower bible

AGuest

May you all have peace!
Talk about the FALSE STYLUS and how it can mislead!!!
For the LIFE of me... I could not understand why some would read John 5:39, 40... and not get the sense of it! Until today, when my Lord told me to look the verse up... in the King James version of the Bible. And the problem there is... the very first word... "Search". I will quote the King James, here:
"Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which tesify of me."
Now, reading that, wouldn't you OF COURSE think that one SHOULD search the scriptures because eternal life is in THEM... because they testify about Christ? Well, that's what it says to ME! But... this is FALSE... a TRUE MISTRANSLITERATION!!!
How do we know? Well, if one would look up the Greek writing, one WOULD see the word "Search". It is there. However, one would have took a little FURTHER... and see that the King James version... also makes reference to TENSE! And the TENSE used here... is PRESENT tense! As in what one is doing... NOW... versus what one must do... later! What does that MEAN? That the word "search"... in and of itself... is inaccurate. For the word "search"... just "search"... is FUTURE tense! It means TO search... to do something in the FUTURE.
Thus, if PRESENT tense is TRUE, then the CORRECT rendering of the word would be "searching"... or "search" as in "you NOW search" being that it is the PRESENT tense. You are searching... or you search... now!
Here are examples of the word "search", the various tenses, and what I mean:
Past - Searched (I searched/I have searched; you searched/you have seached; we searched/we have searched; they searched/they have searched)
Future - Search (Search for it; I search - I will/should/am going to search; you search - you will/should/are going to search; we search - we will/should/are going to search; they search - they will/should/are going to search)
PRESENT (and please note, the King James version of "search" is the PRESENT tense of the word) - Search (I search (now); you search (now); we search (now); they search (now)... and... Searching (Searching it/Searching for it; I am searching it/I am searching for it; you are searching it/you are seaching for it; we are searching it/we are searchign for it; they are searching it/they are searching for it);
Dear ones... I know that the WTBTS frowned on education... but it is IMPERATIVE that you understand some basic levels of language, grammar and composition. IMPERATIVE. For it is by means of your NOT understanding... that the Adversary... and his agents... mislead you. The WTBTS... as well as ALL of "christendom's" religions, have COUNTED on the people's literary ignorance. COUNTED on it. Remember, it used to be a CRIME against the "church".. to read... to even own a book! Women (and slaves) could be put to death for reading... and ANYONE could be burned at the stake for even possessing a Bible!
The TRUE rendering, then, dear ones, of the Greek word "search" used at John 5:39, 40 in the King James version... is "YOU search..." or "You ARE searching"... for this would be present tense. Below, then, is a comparison of the King James version... with a more accurate rendering:
King James - "Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, the ye might have life."
TRUE rendering - "You are searching the Scriptures; for in them you think you have eternal life: and they are those which testify about me. Yet/But you will not come to ME, that you might have life."
Do we have PROOF that the second is a truer rendering? Of course we do! We have the words of the Son of God himself, when he said:
"I... am the Way, the Truth and the Life. NO ONE comes to Father... EXCEPT THROUGH ME..." and
"THIS is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only TRUE God... AND JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, whom thou hast sent."
I would tell each and every one of you who look to the King James version as your authority, to check this verse in EVERY other Bible version you can. You will find that the correct tense is used in virtually every one. EXCEPT... the King James version.
Why is this important? Because searching the scriptures... and knowing the Bible... will NOT get you everlasting life, dear ones. The ONLY "way" to such life... is through Christ... and by knowing... Christ. For you CANNOT get to the Father... no, you cannot KNOW the Father... until you have come through... and come to know... the Christ.
And how do you do THAT? By... asking. He, Christ... is the "Door". And if you KEEP ASKING... the Door... WILL be "opened" to you... so that you CAN enter. Just remember that that Door... the "narrow gate"... is not found by the many, but the few.
John 10:7, 9
I bid you peace!
A slave of Christ,
SJ
mouthy

Right on
AGuest

and the greatest of peace to you!
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ
LittleToe

Shel:Noone takes this passage to mean that it's because the scriptures say so that we should trust the Lord. It is accepted that, despite having the scriptures, the Pharisees couldn't see him.
The context of the passage in the KJV shows this to be the case, even though (were it taken out of context) it might be applied in the way that you suggest.
Don't forget that that translation is around 400 years old, and translation work has come on a lot since then. Besides, most people use multiple translations, for understanding. Few rely on the KJV alone.
ChristianObserver

Hello Shelby!
Peace be with you :-)
The Greek verb "to search" is rendered in the active voice and indicative mood of the present tense in verse 39.
I think that maybe the problem with the Authorised Version (KJV) at John 5 v 39 is that the subject of the sentence is omitted. It should read:
"Ye search the scriptures...." rather than simply, "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. "
This has been rectified in the New King James Version which has "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me."
For the word "search"... just "search"... is FUTURE tense! It means TO search... to do something in the FUTURE.
There appears to be some confusion here as "search" is in fact present; "will/etc search" is future (the use of the modal verb 3rd singular present 'will' expressing the future tense of "search" here); and "to search" is the infinitive form of the verb. The omission of the subject "Ye", i.e. "you the Jews" (referring back to earlier verses in chapter 5) may cause some to misunderstand and to interpret "search the scriptures" as a command, either for now or for the future.
[As a point of interest, in the majority of instances the present tense in Greek corresponds directly with the English present tense. However, sometimes the present tense is used in Greek for phrases where we would use the past tense in English. These "historical presents" "dramatize" the event for the reader. "Historical presents" are rendered in some translations in the past tense in English, whilst others keep to the present tense.]
Shelby, do you have the NWT version of verse 39 which you could post for me please? I'd be interested to know what it says. If not, no problem :-)
I bid you peace!
bikerchic

And how do you do THAT? By... asking. He, Christ... is the "Door". And if you KEEP ASKING... the Door... WILL be "opened" to you... so that you CAN enter. Just remember that that Door... the "narrow gate"... is not found by the many, but the few.

..........closes the door and quietly slips out of this thread
Peace!
Kate
AGuest

Peace to you!
You said:
Shel: No one takes this passage to mean that it's because the scriptures say so that we should trust the Lord.
Hmmmm... okkkaaayyyyy. I am not sure of your point, dear LT. For me, when my Lord told me to listen to HIM... was at a time when I still needed the "witness" of the "scriptures"... or at least, of what is in the Bible. He took me to these verses. By means of his voice... and what it says at John 5:39, 40, I learned that if I wanted everlasting life... and if I wanted to know something about HIM... then all I needed to do was go (come) to HIM. I have to tell you... it works. Truly.
It is accepted that, despite having the scriptures, the Pharisees couldn't see him.
Yes, I understand this point, but I am not so sure it is "accepted"... by ALL... that despite having the scriptures, one can still be... blind. And deaf.
The context of the passage in the KJV shows this to be the case, even though (were it taken out of context) it might be applied in the way that you suggest.
Yes, it did. However, if one is discerning by means of the spirit, so that one is not "bound" to understand things only in relation to the flesh, in relation to the physical man... one could see just how my Lord meant this statement... without taking it out of context. He said MANY things to the Pharisees... that had one meaning for THEM... and another for those who belong to him. Yes? THEY... to whom he was speaking (the Pharisees)... did NOT get the sense of what he was saying here... as many today also do not.
God is a spirit, dear LT. As is the Christ. How then are we to come to him? In what manner? True, the Jews of that day could have come to him physically - all they needed do was approach the man that he was. Once they had, they could ask him for anything, yes? From feeding them and giving them water to drink... to healing their sick... to resurrecting their dead. Yes? And... they spoke directly TO him when making such requests... and he responded directly TO them when making a reply and/or granting them. Yes?
But... he is a spirit now. How does one approach him... NOW? How does one speak to him... NOW? And... how does HE speak to such one... NOW?
Don't forget that that translation is around 400 years old, and translation work has come on a lot since then. Besides, most people use multiple translations, for understanding. Few rely on the KJV alone.
I have not forgotten its age, dear one, nor what has come since. That is why I exhorted folks to check another translation, IF they haven't already. Perhaps my comment was for the "few"... who still rely on the KJV... alone. They are out there.
Peace to you!
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ
AGuest

The greatest of love and peace to you!
Do you have the NWT version of verse 39 which you could post for me please? I'd be interested to know what it says. If not, no problem :-)
Of course:
"You are searching the scriptures because you think that by means of them you will have everlasting life; and these are the very ones that bear witness about me. And yet you do not want to come to me that you may have life."
I do know that it is the "old" KJV that omits the "Ye". However, there are some who put their trust in that version, who have a difficult time leaving it when it errs. This is mainly because they believe "the Bible" (and perhaps whatever "version" they ascribe to) to be the Word of God... and thus, without error. Which is unfortunate.
Again, may you have peace, dear CO!
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ
plmkrzy

It only make sense when one looks at the history of human behavior/tunnel-vision
The Bible is only a tool. I think that was the point Jesus wanted to make.
LittleToe

Shel:My point was merely that people don't generally use this one text to support the idea of "only trust the Lord because the scriptures say so".
I quite agree that some, like the pharisees of old, believe that searching the scriptures may bring them life. That appears to have been your original point, so I apologise for the misunderstanding.
I would like to just comment that I prefer the KJV over any other translation (even though I use dozens). There is something that seem far more in accord with "the Spirit" than any other translation that I've used. Errors, such as the one that you've demonstrated, usually leap from the page (but then they do from the NWT, too ).

OMIGOSH! John 5:39, 40...

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