Daniel's Prophecy, 605 BCE or 624 BCE?

by Little Bo Peep 763 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  scholar

  Jeffro

  Jeremiah 25:9-11 expresses Jehovah's judgement against Judah principally and the surrounding nations who themselves are not identified. In verse 11 it says 'this land' will become a devastated place, an object of astonishment' which applies to Judah alone and that Judah and the other nations would serve Babylon for seventy years. This proves along with Daniel 9:2 and 2 Chronicles 36:21 that Judah would be desolate for seventy years.

  Jeremiah 25:12 is an oracle only addressed to Babylon and this judgement would commence after the seventy yeras had been fulfilled/ The seventy years was fulfilled in 537 and after that Babylon received her judgement progressively as shown in verse where it to would become desolate, a condition that was not experienced in 539. The above scriptures prove collectively that the seventy years was a[eriod marked by exile, desolation and servitude.

  scholar JW
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  scholar

  Leolaia

  1. Incorrect, Verse 12 simply states that when the seventy years are fulfilled then Jehovah will bring judgement against Babylon, it is verse 11 that determines when the period would end and that would be when the land was no longer desolate and their exile of servitude had ceased which could only have been in 537.

  2. Verses 11 and 12 can only mean that the end of the desolation would mean that the exile and servitude to Babylon had ceased which was 537.

  3. After 539 the king of Babylon could only be the new Medo Persian monarchy and any succcessive kings who would give Babylon power. Eventually, Babylon with its rulership would fade to dust.

  scholar JW
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  scholar

  Leolaia

  Let me assur you that I keep very much up to date with the fine spiritual food served from the Lord's table.The quote from the Isaiah's commentary simply verifies my explanation of Jeremiah 25:11;12 that the seventy years was clearly marked as exile, desolation and servitude under Babylon's domination. The seventy years of Isaiah are not identical with the seventy years of Jeremiah but simply representative of those nations who served along with Judah for seventy years as a round number.

  scholar JW
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  Jeffro

  Your ignorance borders on arrogance and is both frustrating and amusing.
  
  You did not provide answers to the questions I asked. Of course you are not obligated to, but it would be in the interests of your argument to do so.
  
  Daniel's account in chapter 5 is very clear that it is the calling to account of the king.
  "ME'NE - God has numbered the days of your kingdom and has finished it" - ergo 70 years are up.
  "TE´KEL - you have been weighed in the balances and have been found deficient" - ergo called to account
  "PE´RES - your kingdom has been divided and given to the Medes and the Persians"
  
  Daniel didn't say "God has numbered your days and will finish them in another 2 years". The king was 'called to account' (Jeremiah 25:12) on that night. It is really quite clear that the 70 years ended at that point. The king was killed that night and Babylon fell, marking 70 years of dominance for the Babylonian empire.
  
  See also http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/87714/1541570/post.ashx#1541570
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  toreador

  Your ignorance borders on arrogance and is both frustrating and amusing.

  Thats the understatement of the year.
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  scholar

  Jeffro

  Your determination to assign the seventy years wholly to Babylon is frankly stupid. The Bible nowhere refers to Babylon's seventy years for this period is only mentioned in reference to Judah, the land, the city and its people. The passage in Daniel 5 although referring to Babylon's imminent destuction in 539 has no reference to the seventy years so your interpretation is just plain absurd. All that happened was that the dominance of Babylon fell which allowed the seventy years to shortly finish with the return of the exiles to their homeland in 537.

  scholar JW
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  Narkissos

  Scholar says:

  The Bible nowhere refers to Babylon's seventy years for this period is only mentioned in reference to Judah, the land, the city and its people.

  Jeremiah says (I just quote the NRSV as all the translation issues have been amply debated in this very thread)

  - 25:11:

  This whole land shall become a ruin and a waste, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years. Then after seventy years are completed, I will punish the king of Babylon and that nation, the land of the Chaldeans, for their iniquity, says the LORD, making the land an everlasting waste.

  - 27:6f:

  Now I have given all these lands into the hand of King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon, my servant, and I have given him even the wild animals of the field to serve him. All the nations shall serve him and his son and his grandson, until the time of his own land comes; then many nations and great kings shall make him their slave.

  - 29:10:

  For thus says the LORD: Only when Babylon's seventy years are completed will I visit you, and I will fulfill to you my promise and bring you back to this place.

  "It hurts you to kick against the goads." (Acts 26:14.)
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  toreador

  It sure looks like Babylon is mentioned in connection with the 70 years. Hmmmm.
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  Jeffro

  You throw around words like 'stupid' and 'absurd' though you have been told many many times the scriptures that refer to the very things you deny are stated. And once again by Narkissos recently.
  
  You refuse to answer specific questions when asked, and you do not provide references when requested.
  
  There seems to be little point discussing anything with you.
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  Leolaia

  The quote from the Isaiah's commentary simply verifies my explanation of Jeremiah 25:11;12 that the seventy years was clearly marked as exile, desolation and servitude under Babylon's domination.

  LOL, so now they are actually exile-desolation-servitude-domination years?

  The Isaiah commentary in no sense verifies your non-explanation, as it discusses only domination and makes no reference to exile or desolation, and which claims that the 70 years end in 539 BC. Moreover:

  The seventy years of Isaiah are not identical with the seventy years of Jeremiah but simply representative of those nations who served along with Judah for seventy years as a round number.

  To you they are not, but the Isaiah book equates the two and treats them together (e.g. it doesn't say "The 70 years of Isaiah means XXXX, while the 70 years of Jeremiah refers to XXXX", it refers to only one period of "70 years"). In the case of Isaiah 23:15, the "70 years" is for "the duration of ... the Babylonian Empire" whereas in the case of Jeremiah 25 the "70 years" refers to "the period of Babylonia's greatest domination" beginning evidently in 609 BC (since they end in 539 BC). And since it explicitly includes Tyre among "these nations" and claims that nations came under the 70-year domination at different times (a clear reference to "these nations" of Jeremiah), the Society is certainly interpreting the 70 years of Tyre in light of Jeremiah and interpreting the 70 years of Jeremiah in a way that no longer requires that Judah experienced the full 70 years as well.

  Are you so blinded by your cult-thinking that you can't even recognize new light when you see it?