Sick of the nanny state. Polictical correctness can kiss my donkey!

by punkofnice 56 Replies latest social current

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  Caedes

  Personally I think free speech applies to everyone - so echoing a view put forward in The Sun or by UKIP is allowed after all. Thanks.

  I merely pointed out that you were echoing their arguments, disagreeing with those arguments does not equate to wanting them suppressed. Glad to see you are embracing your inner UKipper.

  it just means that offensive free speech such as racism isn't given a platform in the public sphere - this point has nothing to do with this thread. There have been no racist views expressed in this thread.

  You seemed to be suggesting that free speech and political correctness were not compatible, I think they are. You are the one that raised the issue of people being accused of being 'waaycist' (sic).

  Since white people are not subject to institutional racism - very dubious statement. Zimbabwe's white farmers, together with their black colleagues, were driven from their farms by Mugabe's institutional racism. Some were beaten and killed.

  Non-sequiter, this thread is about the UK being too PC in the opinion of PON, yourself and a number of others. If you wish to discuss Zimbabwe then that would be best served in a different thread. I presume you aren't claiming that white people are subject to institutional racism in the UK?
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  Caedes

  Hence the banning of Baa Baa Black Sheep to protect people that are not offended by it in the first place. I see PC as a thin end of a wedge that will erradicate ANY free speech.

  But there is no ban on baa baa black sheep, you keep on saying it but it simply is not the case.

  You mentioned health and safety earlier, which has a similar problem. The people who make the sort of decisions that end up in the pages of the Sun are not health and safety legislators, they are ordinary people interpreting a set of rules. Nobody from the government has gone to a school and banned conkers, it is simply one person reacting or being overzealous.

  In exactly the same way that nobody in government has banned baa baa black sheep, all it takes is one person to say we should sing something else and suddenly we are all on the highway to hell because political correctness has gone mad. Political correctness is in an even worse position because it is merely opinion, nobody goes to jail because they were not sufficiently PC.

  You claim that political correctness is a slippery slope but generally it is used to describe societal peer pressure, if society is changing and becoming more PC that is a result of a change in social attitudes. Nobody is forced to comply, complaining about peer pressure is a bit like complaining that we are hairless apes.
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  punkofnice

  Caedes - But there is no ban on baa baa black sheep, you keep on saying it but it simply is not the case.

  No, I know that. I use this as an example of the tip of a slippery slope, not a point of law. I don't believe that at any stage I consciously (at least), made the claim that any of these things were law, as in legislation.

  BTW the phrase 'political correctness gone mad' grates on me for some reason...not sure why.

  if society is changing and becoming more PC that is a result of a change in social attitudes. Nobody is forced to comply,

  Ooh, not sure about that. I'll have to think about that one.

  complaining about peer pressure is a bit like complaining that we are hairless apes.

  Not sure I see the comparison. As a JW I wasn't allowed a very good education...well that's my excuse.

  I'm not complaining about peer pressure more the possibility of ending up in a dystopian society because the biggest bullies win. A bit like the 11% pay rise you mentioned earlier. Is it any wonder I am inclined to support Class War?

  I think we should be able to laugh at our differences whilst rejoicing in them.

  Also, 'young fella mi lad' was not meant to be patronising, it's how I speak to be friendly to people. No one has punched me yet.
  

  Here's an example...make of it what you will...it's not meant to offend.

  I was talking about my grand daughter's hair. She's half Polish but my mixed race son is her Dad. someone asked me what her hair is like. In innocence I replied, 'It's curly but not niggery like my son's hair."

  The person I spoke to was gobsmacked and I had no idea why. You see, when we were a family, that was a word all my wife's family and she used to describe really curly hair. The word was thus normal to me. So, I used it unconsciously, meaning no offence because the word was a natural part of my vocab. Now, peeps can say I should have been more aware...but I simply wasn't. There you are a lurid confession!

  So I guess this may illustrate both sides. On one hand should anyone have been shocked by a word spoken in innocence? On the other, I can see why it would given 'social attitutes'. But is this Vox Populi or something else? Are we about to become TOO polite and be so incincere that it will explode in a different way? I don't pretend to know. I get cognitive dissonance about it.

  This is my dilemma.

  No doubt my kids will tell me off for this post but you can't win 'em all.

  (Strewth, that was a long reply. I bored myself with it).
• 

  LoveUniHateExams

  Glad to see you are embracing your inner UKipper - I don't think you are. And what's more, just because my views on certain issues overlap those of UKIP doesn't mean that I'm going to vote for them or support them in any way. But I'm sure you knew that.

  You seemed to be suggesting that free speech and political correctness were not compatible - political correctness was started as a response to 70s racism, sexism and homophobia. It has accomplished many good things for British society. However, when it's pursued to the Nth degree it stifles freedom of thought and expression. When political correctness is enforced with Guardianista zeal it is incompatible with a free society. This is what Punk is getting at.

  Since white people are not subject to institutional racism - very dubious statement. Zimbabwe's white farmers, together with their black colleagues, were driven from their farms by Mugabe's institutional racism. Some were beaten and killed.

  Non-sequiter - ok, fair enough, point taken.
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  punkofnice

  :LUHE - When political correctness is enforced with Guardianista zeal it is incompatible with a free society. This is what Punk is getting at.

  Yes. That's about the size of it.
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  Laika

  Punk, I must admit that I don't really get the problem, I understand that Luhe is desperately upset about losing his privilege and often attempts to cover up his prejudices and resentment with a veneer of politeness, but I don't understand why you're upset at all.

  Firstly because you don't seem to be able to come up with many examples and secondly because the ones you've come up with are hardly things worth getting too upset about. Given, for example, that the n word and it's derivatives has nearly always been used as a racial slur it shouldn't anger you when people respond badly to it, even if misplaced. This is just a case of showing empathy, hardly a 'controlling nanny state'!
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  punkofnice

  Laika - With regards to the n word...I wasn't angry at all. In fact none of this thread is meant to be in anger. As far as racial slur is concerned I don't disagree with you. I meant no hate and neither was I trying to encourage anyone to become a racist.

  I don't like the idea that the language can be used to subjugate people. I have no anger, just perhaps frustration when I see innocent things become a no no. Not necessarily law but an unwritten law.

  I don't carry this around with me either. I just go ugh! when someone says something like: 'Am I allowed to say that?'

  I just fear for the future. Mostly I don't even think about it...just sometimes I think people can be over the top about it. After all, if dangerous organisations like the BNP were not allowed to tell us their aims what would happen?

  I take comfort in your words: the ones you've come up with are hardly things worth getting too upset about.

  Thank you