Geez Bleep
I you can't succeed in misdirecting the conversation with a bit of info, you attempt it with an avalanche of info. Too bad. I ain't biting. When are you going to address the issue??
SS
THE DILEMMA FACING APOSTATES
by You Know 134 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Smitty
The reason You Know is so long winded is because he seems to be none other than "MDS". We all know who he was. "The messiah" He should have given up by now.
Edited by - smitty on 22 July 2002 15:1:13
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simwitness
You Know...
Still waiting for a response from you on the two questions I asked.
If you do not desire to answer them, please say so.
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You Know
Okay. I thought this thread was long gone. Let me scroll up and see what you are talking about and I will give it a go. / You Know
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You Know
SIMIWITNESS asks
I would like for you to present your BIBLICAL evidence that the WTBS or the group calling themselves "Jehovah's Witnesses" is/are God's chosen organization on earth today.
Larc asked a similar question of me the other day, which I responded to here.>>>>
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=32472&site=3
I dont see much point in answering the same thing again so soon.
Is there any BIBLICAL evidence (or reason) NOT to follow the WTBS (or similar groups) based on their teachings alone? (this is irrespective of the current scandals that cause them (the WTBS) to need "cleansing")
Yes, I suppose that there is. In the first century Paul said that both the Greeks and the Jews stumbled over the simple teachings of Christianity because it didnt measure up to their expectations. To the Greeks it was just nonsense because it didnt have the sophistry that the Greeks intellectuals expected from their philosophy. And he specifically said that the teaching of the Christ was a stumbling block to the Jews. Similarly, there are various build in stumbling blocks today that exist to provide people with all the justification they need to reject the truth as actually being the truth.
/ You Know
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simwitness
Nice try, YK, however you did not answer my question in the previous thread.
1. Please present scriptural evidence that UNIQUELY IDENTIFIES the WTBS as "God's Visible Organization" on the earth. The other thread simply muddies the point of what constitutes "God's Organization". You assert that the WTBS is this organization.
I am asking you to defend your faith in the WTBS as that organization using ONLY the bible.
2. I am not particularly interested in "... stumbling blocks today that exist to provide people with all the justification they need to reject the truth as actually being the truth. " I am asking a direct question.
Is there any teaching in the bible that would specifically instruct people NOT TO FOLLOW organizations such as the WTBS based solely on their teachings? If the organizations own teachings are the stumbling block, how can they be "God's Visible Organization" on the earth? (If you need some help here, go read Luke 21 and comment on it's warnings to the followers, and contrast that with what the "organization" known as the WTBS has taught over the past 120+ years).
Edited by - simwitness on 22 July 2002 16:20:6
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Crazy151drinker
Thank you Bleep, now we know to disregard it as crap.
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You Know
I am asking you to defend your faith in the WTBS as that organization using ONLY the bible.
First off, the WT is largely a pubishing company, so it is not really Jehovah's organization. Jehovah's organization, as I pointed out, is a spiritual organization. Nonetheless, the Watchtower is at the center of that organization at the present time. So, in the previous thread I provided a few reasons why I think Jehovah's Witnesses are the real deal based upon the fact that we recognize Christ as our leader. Here's what I wrote:
"Since Jesus is the only true leader of Christians, and since we believe that he in not an impotent king, in that he is able to impose his will upon the lives of his willing servants, we should be able to determine who is, and who is not, under Christ's headship. Simply put, true Christians are those who obey Christ as their king. From what I see, Jehovah's Witnesses earnestly endeavor to obey Christ. For example, Jesus said 'Go, and preach about my kingdom.' Jehovah's Witnesses do that. Jesus said we must not be part of Satan's world. We are not. Jesus said to put away the sword. We have. Jesus said we must love Jehovah our God with all our heart and mind. We do, at least we try. Jesus said that we must be willing to give our very lives for his cause. Many of us have, and will yet."
Is there any teaching in the bible that would specifically instruct people NOT TO FOLLOW organizations such as the WTBS based solely on their teachings? If the organizations own teachings are the stumbling block, how can they be "God's Visible Organization" on the earth?
The WT has served God's purpose in that they have performed sort of like John the Baptizer, in that they have introduced us to Jehovah God and his Messiah, Jesus Christ, with the urgent call to repent. They have acquainted us with the vital issues confronting us regarding God's sovereignty and his determination to rid the earth of wickedness, as well as alerting us to the numerous spiritual dangers that Satan's world presents to our faith. The paradox is, though, that because we have a strong tendency to follow humans, that the Watchtower has apparently, inadvertently, overshot the mark, in that the Watchtower itself has become a religion and has replaced Jehovah God and Christ in the hearts and minds of many. So, I believe that the final test that will come upon Jehovah's Witnesses will be the decoupling of our faith from the Watchtower organization. That will be a traumatic affair for sure.
To better appreciate this phenomenon of Jehovah's judgments, which the Bible plainly says are high up out of reach for many, we might liken the Watchtower to the Mosaic system that Paul said served as a tutor leading the faithful to Christ. The stumbling block for many Jews, though, was that they couldn't separate themselves from their attachment to Judaism when Christ fianlly arrived and Jehovah abadoned the Jewish system. That, my friend, was the paradox, in that the very thing that served as their reliable guide could also be their undoing if they placed undue importance upon it. So, while the Watchtower has similarly served as a tutor, the Watchtower is not the end of our faith. At some point, obviously, the Watchtower will have served its purpose and will be discarded by Jehovah. But the very fact that many of Jehovah's Witnesses have a demonstrable, genuine, child-like faith in God and Christ is evidence that the Wt's tutorship has considerable value.
But, the apostolic warning is: "Do not believe every inspired expression, knowing that many false prophets have gone forth into the world." The fact that faithful anointed ones had to be warned not to believe every inspired utterance would seem to indicate that the seemingly inspired utterances would come from a trusted source. Again, indicating that at some point our faith and trust in Jehovah will be pitted against what the Watchtower says and does, and judging by some of the squirrely stuff going on at 25 Columbia Heights, evidently that inflection point is nearly upon us. Hope that helps / You Know
Edited by - You Know on 22 July 2002 17:2:6
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Crazy151drinker
First off, the WT is largely a pubishing company
...and a minor Naval Supplier and U.N. Member :)
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OUTLAW
YK,although I like the idea,I doubt you can seperate the WBTS from the dubs.Their just too intertwined.Any dub that trys to axe WBTS will be labeled APOSTATE.You would be labeled apostate for even bringing this up.I believe both will have to to fall,so the original idea of decent goodhearted people wanting to study the bible with each other can re-emerge.I`m not for bible study,but I`m not against it for those who want it...OUTLAW