You/Don'tKnow
Post way to long, I fell asleep
THE DILEMMA FACING APOSTATES
by You Know 134 Replies latest watchtower bible
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144001
You Know,
Obviously apostate dubs at one time did believe that there was a solid foundation of our faith otherwise you wouldn't have spent those many years trying to convince others that you had the truth. - - You Know
I'm not sure if I fit the definition of an apostate since I never believed anything the JWs forced down my throat as a child. I never had any inclination whatsoever to get baptized or in any way remain with the JWs beyond the age where my parents could compel me to attend meetings and perform uncompensated marketing services for the WTS corporation(s). If you consider me to be an "apostate," then your above-quoted assumption is absolutely invalid as it pertains to me. I spent "many years trying to convince others that [I] had the truth," only because I was coerced under the threat of severe beatings to perform such uncompensated marketing services. Therefore, in my case, not only was there not "solid foundation" for faith, but there never was any faith to speak of. Instead, there was the misery of a young child exploited for the benefit of a corporation cult.
Many of you were elders, ministerial servants, pioneers, and some even anointed. Where you that stupid? - - You Know [sic]
Unfortunately, for those who at one time believed but no longer have faith in the Watchtower cult, the answer to that question is "yes." That's why many are here, to vent or to find other ways to cope with their mistakes. At some point I bet you too will be here for that purpose, instead of the gadfly purpose that you now serve (and quite successfully, given the typically substantial number of replies to your posts).
Ironically, one of the strongest evidences that we do indeed possess the true faith is the existence of apostates themselves. - - You Know
That is extremely fallacious reasoning, You Know. That's like a person suffering from delusions claiming that the existence of people who reject his/her version of reality somehow prove that his/her version of reality is accurate. LOL.
One of the great ironies of the apostate movement, that presumptuously boasts of "know the truth about the truth," is that apostates themselves are bound by the Watchtower's own interpretive shortcomings, and hence are massively ignorant of Jehovahs judicial decisions regarding his organization. In what way? In that the presumption in operation is that if enough scandal and error can be brought to light regarding the Governing Body, the Watchtower Society's teachings, as well as individual Jehovah's Witnesses, then that somehow means that Jehovah's Witnesses have no connection with Jehovah God.
You Know, you have presumed a presumption. Scandal is merely one factor among many that support skepticism of an organization that represents itself as the sole mouthpiece of god. There are many more, including without limitation the preaching of intolerance of others, shunning of family members who don't share cult beliefs - - leading to destruction of the family unit, illogical interpretation of biblical standards regarding blood transfusions and cigarette smoking, etc.
It takes a lot of faith to believe what the JWs are preaching. Like many others here, I am a skeptic, not a pigeon. I think that in some ways you are too, and I welcome the day when you join the ranks of the folks you unsuccessfully attempt to discredit here.
Edited to correct typos - additions are underlined, deletions are
stricken through.Edited by - 144001 on 17 July 2002 12:33:19
Edited by - 144001 on 17 July 2002 14:53:15
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Crazy151drinker
I have come to my attention that many members of this board have had troulbe reading YOU KNOW's post, so I thought I would translate it for you:
"Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Im a dumbass blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah my toilet has a demon blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah I need to take my meds blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah is it 1975 yet? blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah my parents supported hitler blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah I cannot add blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah when I was little I wanted to join the Navy and bomb people blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah I see dead people blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah anyone who doesnt agree with me is an apostate which means that the Elders are apostates blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blood is bad thats why I got rid of mine blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah I cant find my UN card blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah Im a dumbass blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah my toilet has a demon blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah I need to take my meds blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah is it 1975 yet? blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah my parents supported hitler blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah I cannot add blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah when I was little I wanted to join the Navy and bomb people blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah I see dead people blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah anyone who doesnt agree with me is an apostate which means that the Elders are apostates blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blood is bad thats why I got rid of mine blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah I cant find my UN card blah blah blah blah" /YOU KNOW
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Dismembered
ROFLMAO Great post Crazy
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hawkaw
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!
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You Know
I haven't had time to read all the responses, let alone respond myself, but I will, of course, get back to you. / You Know
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You Know
Patricia asks:
When Jesus found wrongdoing in the "house" of his father, he made a whip of ropes and drove them from the temple. Why don't J.W's follow Jesus' example and do the same thing with abusers that disgrace his name?
The answer to that question is simple: Jehovah's Witnesses do not have the power to carry out such a judgment. We try to keep our congregations clean, we disfellowship immoral individuals by the thousands, yet there are still many thousands of immoral and faithless individuals who remain. Jesus on the other hand is in a position to effectively and permanently effect a complete cleasing of Jehovah's spiritual organization, and that is exactly what Jesus long ago foretold that he would do. In the 13th chapter of Matthew Jesus, in company with his angels, "will collect out of his kingdom all things causing stumbling and all persons doing lawlessness." That final decisive purge can accomplish what men never can, as painful and tramatic as it may be to endure when it occurs it will nonetheless pave the way for Jehovah's remaining loyal ones to be granted entry into the New World of Jehovah's promise. / You Know
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Crazy151drinker
Jehovah's Witnesses do not have the power to carry out such a judgment.
Let me translate once again:
Can the slave rebuke the master? If we kicked out all of the wicked people who would lead us? Since we cannot have a leaderless cult we just keep all the wicked and cast out all those who know the truth /YOU KNOW
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Crazy151drinker
...Jehovah's spiritual organization...
YOU KNOW, can you please quote the passage where this is written? And please not some half ass jumble of quotes from different books but the exact "Jehovah's spiritual organization."
Since when did God run an organization? Is his website www.God.org????
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You Know
Salud says:
The examples are all fine and good. The problem is that all of your examples are from the Hebrew scriptures. I am not saying that we cannot learn anything from them, but supposedly these were written for the Hebrews anticipation of Christ. Nowhere do you find God dealing adversely with a group or organization of people in the Christian Greek Scriptures.
That is simply not true. Jesus is the head of the congregation and in Revelation he issues his judgment against the 7 symbolic congregations that exist during the so-called lord's Day. For example, to the Ephesian congregation Jesus said that they had left the love that they had at first and if they didn't repent that he would remove their lampstand from its place. To the Pergamum congregation Jesus said that they were tolerating the pestiferious sect of apostates known as the sect of Nicolaus, not unlike the cult of Ray franz today, which Christ said he personally hated. Jesus warned the congregation that if they didn't repent he would war with them with the long sword of his mouth. To the Laodicea congregation of self-satisfied ones Jesus threatens to spew the lukewarm ones out of his mouth, as it were. So, Jehovah and Jesus definitely do speak of dealing adversely with unfaithful ones among the organized congregations of worshippers in the Christian era. / You Know