The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday (page 72)

cofty

"We believe that the Holy Spirit is Jehovah's own tremendous power, a unique, impersonal active force that may be used to whatever purpose He intends in executing His will..."

But apprently this "tremendous" power can only be used for vague things like inspiring Eden's business talents, not for things that actually require power like calming a tsunami and saving a quarter of a million lives.

My questions still stand.

1. If god ceased being interventionist after Jesus' resurrection, how do you account for all the deaths from natural disasters prior to 33AD?

2. You claim god does not intervene in order to respect human choice. How did the 250 000 victims of the tsunami choose to be killed on 26th Dec 2004?

Summary so far...

cofty

I think the "slippery slope" defense might warrant a new number.

EdenOne

Thanks for the free publicity, Cofty

Now, would you care to demonstrate how what is written in the website about God's Holy Spirit is contradictory with what I wrote about God refraining from interveining?

While your question #1 is a fair one, your #2 is a despicable fallacy.

Eden

cofty

Still waiting on your answers to 1 and 2

EdenOne

Romans 9:22 - shows that God is willing to show his destructive power, but has refrained to so do because he has been showing mercy towards those pursuit the hope he gives. Romans 2:4 shows that God does so in order to allow people to reach repentance. So, yes, I do believe that God is refraining from interfeering. Why he has interfeered in the pre-christian past? I have a few guesses, but - correct me if I'm wrong on this one - I don't see God expressly saving people from natural disasters except when he was the one causing them, therefore, in control of such events.

Btw, this

How did the 250 000 victims of the tsunami choose to be killed on 26th Dec 2004?

is an abominable fallacy and doesn't deserve an answer. It's bellow you, Cofty, and you know it. Stop being obtuse.

Eden

cofty

God does so in order to allow people to reach repentance. - Eden

So god let 250 000 die in order to lead them to repentence.

I don't see God expressly saving people from natural disasters except when he was the one causing them, therefore, in control of such events.

So even with all this "tremendous power" god is not in control.

You claimed god does not intervene in order to respect human choice. My question is valid. How did the tsunami victims choose to die?

EdenOne

As for your question #1, that is fair and deserves an answer:

1. If god ceased being interventionist after Jesus' resurrection, how do you account for all the deaths from natural disasters prior to 33AD?

I can only say that, exception made to the cases in the Bible where God is credited for causing a natural disaster, with a punitive purpose attatched to it, I don't see how God can be acused of causing every other natural disaster. As such, and because I only see God sparing people from disasters that He caused, I conclude that those deaths are a product of people being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's not their fault, it's not anybody's fault.

Eden

EdenOne

A man decides to take a business trip to Dubai and invites his wife to come along. She decides she doesn't want to go because it would be boring for her; while he's gone, a storm happens and a tree hits the house during a storm, and the wife gets killed.

Will you blame the man for taking the trip and not being home? Because if he had been home, he might have taken his wife out in time before the disaster. It was within his power, right?

Will you blame the man for not watching the weather report and call his wife to tell her she must go out of the house for the storm would surely knock the tree down? It was also within his power, right?

Will you blame the wife for taking the decision of not going on the trip and staying at home instead?

Will you blame the tree for it?

Will you blame the contractor who built the house for him?

Who will you blame for it?

Eden

THE GLADIATOR

Eden, I have engaged you a few times over the last couple of days because I thought you were worth talking to. I was wrong. Your last post sounds like it was written by the Watchtower writers; unadulterated dribble. It illustrate the harm that being a Jehovah's Witness can do to rational thinking.

EdenOne

It's your choice to not want to engage me based on your judgement of my "worth", Gladiator. I'm sure you're glad to have that choice and use it to your liking.

And, btw, since you brought up "rational thinking".

Rationallity: " Rationality is a normative concept that refers to the conformity of one's beliefs with one's resons to believe, or of one's actions with one's reasons for action." I don't see how I'm drifting from rational thinking, as per the above definition.

You may question my reasons to believe, but it's improper to acuse me of abandoning "rational thinking". That's a common fallacy used by those eager to attack believers, Gladiator.

Eden

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

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