jwfacts or jwinterpretations? (page 10)

slimboyfat

How do you analyse the situation to arrive at your conclusion

Is this the question? What conclusion? I think we have lost the plot.

Well, you asserted: Sbf: We cannot escape our subjectivity in the sense that we cannot step outside of ourselves and the language we use in order to decide if our view and how we describe it is any closer to reality than any other perspective

I just wonder how that applies to the situation with alice and bob.

slimboyfat

Well just because two people come to agree about a given situation doesn't necessarily mean they have discovered the reality of it, does it? I am trying to answer your question even though I don't understand it really.

bohm

SBF: Well just because two people come to agree about a given situation doesn't necessarily mean they have discovered the reality of it, does it?

no, perhaps it would be vice for bob to think the coin might be an elephant..

I am trying to show by example your ideas apply to very few actual situation. Case in point, in the example we have people with different background knowledge who come to agree. It would seem Alice did not have a big problem stepping outside her subjectivity, at least in terms of agreeing with bob, even though you claim its impossible (whatever thats supposed to mean in any real-life situation).

TD

Is there such a thing as objective truth? If you state that such and such a quote appeared in The Watch Tower, (Insert photographic reproduction of said quote) is that a fact or is it an interpretation?

slimboyfat

But bohm the whole situation is socially constructed - the idea of fairness and what constitutes a good test for a start. The fact that the coin produces both heads and tails might appear to mean that it is "fair", but it could conceivably mean other things. What like? Maybe Bob has two weighted coins and hides them up his sleeve in turns. Or whatever else your imagination can come up with. The possibilities are endless.

I came across a great quote from Thomas Edison today:

“When you have exhausted all possibilities, remember this - you haven't.”

The world is so vastly complex and unfathomable that to presume we know and can describe completely accurately and objectively even any small part of it once and for all is a conceit.

TD I would say the quote you provide is good reason to conclude that Watchtower pronouncements are nothing to shape your life by.

bohm

Sbf: so you answer the specific situation in my question by speculating the situation might be different, for instance if bob and alice was unable to communicate concepts a six year old can grasp...

so far you have not given the impression your ideas apply to real-world situations.

slimboyfat

Not different. Unless you are God, how do you know for sure if Bob has a coin up his sleeve or not, or some other contingency that makes the situation different from what it might appear to any given participant or observer? If for the purpose of relating this scenario you are adopting the position of the omniscient narrator (who can know every detail in full) then that is precisely the position which does not exist in real life, which is the whole point.

Perspectivism is a good approach to many real life situations. If one takes a pragmatic approach to ethics for example then we are not misled by the tyranny of believing there is only one correct answer to dilemmas we may face. In place of timeless rules that stifle human expression and happiness, there is the invitation to try and see what works, and the exhortation to respect that others may come to different conclusions.

jwfacts or jwinterpretations?

“When you have exhausted all possibilities, remember this - you haven't.”

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