by Recovery 106 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I also dont see how Im mentally ill for pointing out the questionable blunders made by Ms. Conti.
A fair point, provided your questions are legitimate and sincere ones, and not simply a pathetic attempt to defend the WTS at the expense of a sexual abuse victim. And frankly, the flip manner in which you addressed these questions in your thread would make anyone question your sincerity.
Recovery said: Your quotation makes no sense since that was many weeks ago. Maybe it hasnt occurred to you that Ive already began to read it? Hmmm, I wonder what Outlaws IQ is.
So...this begs the question: Did you begin to read Crisis? Did you finish?
For me, leaving wasn't just one thing. Once I began to see the truth about the organization, the house of cards fell down. If I had to pin it down I think it would go in this order:
1. Researched the history of the Watchtower using both it's own publications as well as outside accounts of its history. The false prophecies were shockingly worse than the Watchtower let on about. Seeing how they condemned others as false prophets, but did not apply the Deuteronomy false prophet test to themselves, was a huge eye opener.
2. Realizing the place they put themselves in, especially as it applies to Jesus. Jesus is THE mediator between God and men, but the Watchtower set itself up as a mediator between God as it relates to the great crowd. Also researching the deity of Jesus and their deliberate fabrications in the NWT in regards to Jesus relationship to the Father.
3. Seeing the intense lack of love inside the organization. Love is talked about almost non-stop among JWs. However, the practice of UNCONDITIONAL love is almost non existant. If you do something "wrong" then you are shunned. If you disagree with a teaching, you are shunned. If you speak about something that is not sanctioned by the Watchtower, you are either shunned or looked down upon as an unspiritual person (at best) or an apostate.
4. The claim to ONLY follow God and the Bible, yet the reality of following whatever the Watchtower says whether you can readily agree or not. There are no BIBLE studies. There are only publication studies. THEY tell you what to think and believe about EVERYTHING. They take the role of the Holy Spirit and become teachers in the way that only the Holy Spirit is to be our teacher. (John 14:26)
5. The complete confusion regarding new light. The flip flopping of doctrines. The light does NOT get brighter. It merely turns on and off. Going back to old points of view and then rejecting them all over again. I think studying the Revelation book for the last time was a HUGE wake up call to me. They are utterly confused about Revelation, and this can be seen as they try to apply each part of Revelation to their own history. Each of the trumpet blasts are prophecies about their pitiful conventions that they held in the 1920's and 30's. Conventions where MANY false teachings and false prophecies were put forth.
Like I said, these things all mounted up together and it was overly obvious that IF God had only 1 organization that represented Him, it would not be this one. Since then I've come to believe that God does not have a single organization. God deals with us as Christians. Individually. We all make up the Body of Christ. And there are Christians in many different places and denominations. It's that willingness to write off every other person that does not believe the same as we do that causes hate and intolerance. It condemns others for not sharing beliefs on their peculiar doctrines, as well as encourages an environment where unconditional love cannot be shown.
Recovery, if you are honestly looking into these things with an open mind to see IF this organization can be what it claims to be, then I commend you. I pray that you can do a thorough examination and see if they really were chosen by Jesus in 1919, like they claim.
(1) I realized that the simple lessons of Christianity 101 were being set aside. For instance, the three parables in Luke 15.
(2) I realized that the organization was going way beyond the things that were written in the Scriptures and treating traditions of men above God's Word.
(3) The October/November 2011 Watchtower (public editions), the articles on 607. Research into various points in these articles made me realize that 607 could not be true…therefore that had implications about 1914, 1918/19 and the whole eschatology the organization was built upon.
(4) After reading Steven Hassan's book, Combating Cult Mind Control, which had nothing to do with the Society, I realized that the organization was a high control group and practiced BITE thought reform. The similarity to other groups that differed wildly in belief and practice was uncanny.
I dont see why Im deemed a troll.
You came to this forum under false pretenses by claiming you were once a dissident of the Watchtower society. You painted yourself as a victim of false information and then described yourself as a hero of sorts admitting need of "Recovery" which is how you chose your name. This is complete and utter rubbish. You may have had a moment of disillusionment upon entering the internet community, but in no way were you ever victimized as you claim. Shockingly after failing to accurately portray your own victimhood, you then turn on a known victim of rape. These acts are nothing short of shameful.
22 days ago you said this:
Oh boy, 3 pages of questions in this thread, another page in the 609 thread, and 2 more in the Grandfather advice thread? Haa. I think my future thread on Candace Conti will be far more interesting, but just for the heck of it i'll wad thru the muck and see if I can find something more than rhetoric.
In the thread that you and I debated in you posted your "summery" where you said this:
I challenged the members of the internet’s most popular “Jehovah’s Witness” forum to produce a better scriptural interpretation or just to simply scripturally prove the doctrine to be in error. Surprisingly, after more than 180 comments and more than three thousand views, only 3 users actually used scripture(s) in their argument. By far, the majority of the posts in this thread were nothing more than the same apostate rhetoric than can be easily be found and read on any ex-JW website. They will cite any reason; they will quote a 1920 Watchtower, mention a fictitious tale of child abuse or extreme shunning from their relatives, they will post nonsensical photos depicting a misconception/a joke about JW’s, or sidetrack the issue by asking random doctrinal/unrelated questions.
In the debate resulting from your "challenge" I posted a conference where both Candace Conti and her Lawyer answered questions. Your "summery" answered my question with calling not only Candace Conti and Rick Simmons liars, but me too. Where is your evidence? The thread you made about Candace Conti lying was incredibly weak and riddled with flaws. Is that all you have? To call them money making liars? Did you not know that Candace only sued for $1440.00 and was awarded 28 million by a jury? Shouldn't you take a look at the court documents and gather basic facts instead of hanging your entire case on an accusation of lying? Like I said, clearly you are mentally ill and require medical attention. Please do the right thing and check yourself into a hospital. You can still turn around and become the man you want to be so desperately.
-Sab
Your who the WBT$ attracts..
Intellectually dishonest..
100% WBT$ Loyal no matter how corrupt it is..
Took the words right out my mouth Outlaw
The unpardonable amount of disingenuous lies put forth to support the WTS organization, coming from the WTS. itself
and from the people mentally adjoined to this organization through forcibly constrained mental indoctrination.
Okay, let me clear something up. I am not attacking Conti for being a victim of sexual abuse. I.would never do such a thing. I did not viciously berate her and browbeat her wit names and insults as is so often done on this forum. I looked at the court documents just like everyone else. I found some very disturbing/contradictory statements.on multiple occassions. How can I be considered a troll for pointing out the obvious contradictions directly from the horses mouth. Perhaps I could have gone about it in a better way, surely, but does that make my points invalid? Instead of.offering a defense for her, everyone would rather attack me. Why is that?
About the Ray Franz thread: I did not realize his books were so verbose anf meticulous. I imagined it being similar to Captives of a Concept. Brief, to the point, and not very time consuming. But I was wrong. I started the thread with full intentions.of debating the points made in the book, but it would be impossible.for me to discuss such meticulous arguments without many hours of research.
Again I am not a troll. My efforts are sincere. But you can call me what you'd like. Who I am is of no.importance anyway.
Are you 'mankelli' reborn?
Let me guess he was a mentally ill, intellectually dishonest, troll too?
He violated the posted rules and was banned. He has returned once or twice, since then.
it would be impossible.for me to discuss such meticulous arguments without many hours of research.
Yes, it takes some research, and not the kind that JWs are used to doing. I didn't understand how to do REAL research until I left JWs. Research for a JW is merely getting out the WT library CD and seeing what the Watchtower ALONE says about any given subject. But real research is more in depth. I'm glad you are starting to see that, Recovery.
But we can start a discussion on just one topic that he discusses. We could talk about the history of false prophecy in the Watchtower organization. What the Bible says about it. What THEY actually said, word for word. How about starting there? Or we could talk about the practice of disfellowshipping. We could start there. Or the flip flopping doctrines and going back to previous points of view. The switching on and off of light, as it were.
It's a cop out, Recovery, to say, "It's too in depth and would take too long to talk about."
Here is what I personally think about you, Recovery. I think you did some SMALL bit of research in the past and got scared and ran back to "Mother". I think that you now want to "Debunk" all those that left due to what we feel are major reasons. But I think that you are terrified that you may read, see, or listen to something that gets you "doubting" again. Crisis of Conscience is one of those books that I think you want to stay away from for fear that it might cause you to have some major cognitive dissonance and make you uncomfortable. So you avoid it and try to ignore the facts presented.
I also think that you have come to this site with your mind made up about the organization and are not looking for truth. You are looking to defend at all costs. It reminds me of those that debate. If you watch a debate, it matters not what either side says. The person on the other side of the debate will not waver, no matter WHAT points are brought up by the other side. They are only there to prove their point and not to learn.
If I've judged your situation wrong, I apologize, Recovery. But I do not think I'm wrong...
