Theists, why does God allow suffering.. (page 71)

Viviane

There must be some inherent value to suffering that we can't see or understand from our current perspective.

Instead of "must", what you mean is "the only reason I can think of is that my mind is so limited that..."

little_Socrates

Viviane that isn't what I said and not what I meant. I think I made my point clearly...

Yes I did use Christian theology to answer this question... but the skeptics also use Christian scriptures and traditions to try and argue the other side of this issue.

I don't understand this statement... Do you know me and my life? Do you think I have never suffered? Thant I have never come across hard times? I am human therefore I suffer. I can't compare my suffering others, I don't know the depths of their pain... but on the same token you shouldn't judge me either.

Viviane

Viviane that isn't what I said and not what I meant. I think I made my point clearly...

"must" isn't a word that makes sense where you used it. I just fixed it so it matches your point.

Yes I did use Christian theology to answer this question... but the skeptics also use Christian scriptures and traditions to try and argue the other side of this issue.

"Try" being the operative word. People, such as I, use scripture to point out that all you can do is try and that you never arrive at actual answers, just more obfuscation (which I eschew) or claiming humans are too stupid to understand it. Well, you can call us stupid if you want and you can think of yourself that way if you want. I, however, just read an article on how we have figured out how to put afterburners on particle accelerators. If we're smart enough to figure that out, I am pretty sure we're smart enough to answer "why is your god such a raging dick". It's because he's a dick, not because we're too stupid to understand why being a dick is really a good thing.

Let's put it this way, if someone treated your child the way your god would treat you, we would put that dick in jail for being a dick. Your god doesn't get a pass on raging dickishness. He's a dick.

little_Socrates

How are you a dick if you accept the same fate as you subject others to? It isn't like God says "You suffer while I just sit on my throne".

God got off his throne and suffered with us.

cofty

God got off his throne and suffered with us

Even if the gospels could be believed Jesus "suffering" was bullshit.

It reminds me of when a politician makes a TV documentary of himself living off welfare for a whole 5 days before going back to his mansion in Surrey.

Viviane

ow are you a dick if you accept the same fate as you subject others to? It isn't like God says "You suffer while I just sit on my throne".
God got off his throne and suffered with us.

God didn't do that. God sent his son to have an experience for three days and nothing changed.

God didn't watch his child die forever from cancer or a tumor or die from strangulation on it's umbilical cord during childbirth. God didn't watch his family all die from ebola or the plague or be captured, raped and murdered by an invading army.

YouYour God is a dick.

LorenzoSmithXVII

Viviane5 hours agoGod didn't watch his child die forever from cancer or a tumor or die from strangulation on it's umbilical cord during childbirth. God didn't watch his family all die from ebola or the plague or be captured, raped and murdered by an invading army.
YouYour God is a dick.

I can see where you're coming from Viv. But the last chapter is going to one of peace and happiness and eternal life for people. Those people will understand the ultimate love God has for mankind.

But yes, there are many horrors that God permits. But these are all temporary.

The bottom line about suffering is this. If you had a choice to live forever but it required for you to be born to a painful life or a short life, would you be willing to undergo the temporary pain and suffering in order to have eternal life later?

That is what is going on here? You have to let go of our soul, meaning comforts in this life, in order to gain it back. If you try to fulfill your soul in this life at the expense of obedience to God, then you will lose your soul.

In order to have a resurrection later on, you have to be born. So if some humans born will end up with childhood cancer or some other serious illness due to the imperfection of mankind, it still is a better option than not having been born at all. The important thing is life after Judgment Day, not this life.

Satan thinks God is a "dick" too since God tricked Satan into killing Adam. Satan thought when God said, "In that VERY DAY you will die" meant a 24-hour day. So Satan had a slam-dunk in his own mind if God was forced to kill Adam the very day he ate the fruit. There would be no chance for any of Adam's children to be born. It meant essentially killing billions of humans in one fell swoop! To Satan, who was quite unhappy, that was something worth dying for. God's failed experiment at trying to make a creature that was half angel and half animal essentially. But then God turned the tables on Satan and told him he didn't mean a 24-hour day but a 1000-year long day. So Satan ultimately only gets to kill the wicked.

I can understand why some people might get angry with God sometimes, many people do. But I look at the end chapter, the ultimate goal. The ultimate goal was to save the people Satan had murdered. If that took some pain sometimes, some horror, some short lives, then that's part of the package. But in the end, all those days of pain and hurt and suffering will be a thing of the past and will be forgotten. Good times will replace the bad times.

God knows what he is doing. You can't just focus on the negatives. You have to see the big picture.

Appreciate your life. Have empathy for those who have less.

sunny23

How would you feel:

About a scientist who designed a magic pill that made you forget all your pain and problems and gave you a feeling of tremendous bliss. He then proceeds to allow pain and suffering of a large group of people, even babies, though he could stop it at any time, he even inflicts pain at times yet gives his favorite people this magic pill later when he feels like it. How would you view this man?

Good times will replace the bad times? If thats how God thinks when he looks down on earth to see 200,000 years of human suffering and pain then...f*** him. What a loving parent right? Who wants to worship that monster?

TheWonderofYou

Cofty asked me

So Jesus' god is powerless in the face of a tsumani is he? I thought he made the universe.

If you are positing that the god of Jesus is as powerless do anything in the world as a crying baby then that is an interesting theology. It is one way of getting god off the hook. Christians tend to resort to some form of deism when faced with reality but I have never seen it done so thoroughly. It suggests an obvious question of why bother worshipping such a useless deity?

Another comment was : Jesus suffering has no worth

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

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