PSac, those points are true. A minister, not generally familiar with the New World Mis_translation, would be quoting from another bible version. This is not accepted without reservation by a dub. When someone comes into to try to reason with a JW on doctrine, again it generally fails because the JW does not beleive their doctrine due to the fact that it is biblical. They believe it due to their belief in the GB. A minister trying to jump in and show the dub the trinity is falling into the WT trap. The debate will go on endlessly and fruitlessly. What the WT does fear is its members examining the organization's history- especially in light of their claims to authority.
Tell a minister why the Bible alone is not enough to reach jw
by carla 96 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
Deputy Dog
Isaac
Did you read my last post?
-
isaacaustin
hmm, I see your point. Reach- to educate a member as far as the org being the sham it is different from leading them to Jesus. Some will realize the org is not what it claims but never come to Jesus...others will. So I guess the best way to say it is we hope to fully reach each JW...many times all we are able to do is prove the JWs are a sham but not reach them. I still beleive this is better then for them to stay blind and in the cult.
I think a minister would probably see it similarly.
Thought?
-
PSacramento
Focusing on the organization may not work, every religious organization have their black eyes, most Jw's that come to see the issues with the WT do it for a combination of reasons it seems, not just due to one.
Remember, no matter how much time you get with a JW, you get LESS than other JW's get with the same person.
-
Deputy Dog
isaac
I wonder if carla sees the difference.
-
glenster
The Bible, in various forms of writing, is by people of faith who ask Chris-
tians for faith in a possible God. Sometimes related evidence and reason helps
show which form the author meant--literal, figurative, allegorical for theolog-
ical teaching, etc. There have been times when this has changed which interpre-
tation to use for people who want to have faith in it.
Unlike the miraculous nature of Jesus, the JWs leaders, who play prophet
whether they call it that or not, and leave no doubt as to the kind of interpre-
tations they intend, are currently available for testing, and they claim the
best Bible-related evidence and reason proves that their dozen or so distinctive
or relatively distinctive rules are what the original Bible authors meant. But
checking that out leads to something like finding Peter Popoff had a radio
transmitter in his ear.
Don't victimize his followers, too, or just write a cranky intolerant
editorial for believers or non-believers who are different than you--keep your
focus on the transmitter. Then it's one great big "we are the world" of people
who don't like liars who can hurt people.
http://gtw6437.tripod.com/
An important difference for those who want to have faith: God is possible, the
JWs leaders aren't.
So the JWs leaders' re-written Bible is just part of their literature (invisi-
ble appearances by Jesus, various bad teaching habits regarding his nature and
what scripture writers and early Christians thought it was, expanded ideas about
worldliness, food rules about blood to be abided to unto death that would give
apostle Paul a curious expression, etc.), and they require followers to avoid
persistent critics like poison. The JWs leaders don't have a Jonestown--they
send their customers around to all sorts of people, so they see to it that re-
searchers who catch onto them aren't around long to tell customers their find-
ings.
Faith in God beyond the see-able, touchable, measurable things can be a deeply
meaningful, important thing to a person, and doesn't require you to mess with
those things or get so 'centric that you can't be friends with others. The JWs
leaders mess with those things and get people to be too 'centric. They sell
people into throwing their faith, sometimes loved ones or lives, away in the
direction of that whole routine and to not show the common sense of wanting to
hear both sides at a trial for it before rendering judgment. The JWs leaders
don't fare well as the defendants of such a trial, so they intend that their
customers shouldn't be much good for jury duty for anything important they have
for sale.
The JWs leaders can't ask you to just use the Bible because even the Bible
writers, as miraculous as some of the things they ask you to believe are, can't
be called on to give the JWS leaders an acquittal. -
jonathan dough
Reniaa said:
Or maybe we just believe when the bible says Jesus is GOD'S son that he actually is God's son. And when YHWH/Jehovah is God's name that it is God's name. That when it says the true worshipers worship THE FATHER with spirit and truth this is what we should do. And when God says he is ONE YHWH he is actually one not 3 and many more. I read the bible everyday there are no passages I am afraid of.
Response:
1) Trinitarians believe Jesus was and is God's Son. Within immanent Trinity there is God the Son and God the Father. Don't confuse this with economic Trinity and the creature of Jesus who was not God. You need to understand the nature of the hypostatic union. Jesus was/is God-man. Sometimes he spoke as God, sometimes as man. The doctrine of the Trinity does not teach that the created humananity of Jesus, the creature, is God Almighty. Yet the JWs insist on spreading this falsehood.
2) YHWH might be God's name, but He has many names such the Alpha and Omega and "I Am" which Jesus assumed himself.
3) You are deceiving the public by claiming that Trinitarians don't believe God is one. They believe He is one God, not three Gods. The three persons refer to his nature. God is a triune-natured God.
But you know this already.
JD II
-
isaacaustin
well said JD
-
Chalam
Tell a minister why the Bible alone is not enough to reach jw
I agree, you can use any bible, even the original Greek and Hebrew and not reach a JW. Revelation from the Holy Spirit is paramount if you want to understand the bible, the One who wrote it, the One who created all things 1 Corinthians 2:14 John 14:26
In fact, all you need is Him, His revelation, His conviction, His pull, His teaching, His council Acts 2:37 John 16:7-9 John 6:43-45
All the best,
Stephen
-
Deputy Dog
Chalam
Revelation from the Holy Spirit is paramount if you want to understand the bible, the One who wrote it, the One who created all things 1 Corinthians 2:14 John 14:26
I agree, but again, it depends on what you mean by "reach".