Do black Americans claim Obama as one of their own?

by digderidoo 69 Replies latest jw friends

  • Mincan
    Mincan

    http://www.foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/fedindex.htm

    Check out Federalist No.69 "On the Real Character of the Executive"

    Goddum, please get over the obsession with the Executive and Judicial branches of your government, why hasn't Congress declared war since world war II? Why hasnt congress done anything in 60 years? Why are years referred to by the one man in office at the time? The Executive should be no more than an organiser. And for foook sake, remove him as head of the army, that's just stupid. Like Julius Caesar.

  • hillbilly
    hillbilly

    I really dont care if he's black white hispanic or muslim.

    What confuses many of us is the emotional quality of his heritage. I dont know may black, white or mixed people who were raised in the rather uniqe enviorment this guy was raised in.

    A black guy from Alabama... who moves north to Chicago...maybe if his half-black son was running I'd think he knows the texture of the country better. Obama was raised and schooled off-shore much of his life. At his age ... he saw the MLK era played as documentary films. His black dad was an African.. so I would not thing Obama got much of the "black experience" and family history of the struggle from his dad.

    I this guy was the son of a Tuskeegee airman or some Black American who was part of the fight he would have a lot more credibility with me

    Other than whatever personal slights Obama has suffered from being "mixed" while stateside... I dont think he really knows what it's like to be black... or poor white in this country. He comes off as a theorist to me when he tries to relate to the problems of middle Americans of any race.

    The more important question is who is really backing a lawyer with less than 4 years Federal experience to front this campaign?

    Jeff

  • Layla33
    Layla33
    Dan did not try to suggest he was an expert in any way. Not only was he actually referring to a comment by Mrs. Jones, but he specifically said "in my observation".

    I think the entire topic was biased to begin with because if we are ever to get OVER race we need to stop making it a bigger deal than it is. That's my opinion and I am sticking to it. HOWEVER, on this topic, I wanted to make it clear that his observation is not expert AND it has its own biases period. Race is a touchy subject itself, but if you are going to respond and try to paint blacks one way and whites another, and always trying to make blacks so much MORE racial than whites, then this situation will never ever go away.

    I see you go on the attack on this subject every time there is a thread that even comes close to discussing race.

    Then you must be blind as a bat. Let me challenge you to go over the last two months and post every racial comment I have made regarding racial subjects on this forum. Don't try to sermonize me, I don't respond regularly to racial topics, but when I do, I am a grown woman and entitled to my opinions, and if you don't like it, scroll past it. And if you want I can refer to the few PMs you have sent me stating how much you applauded my opinion and my sticking to my guns on the occasions when I did respond to racial topics. You need to get your opinions and your criticisms straight.

    It's as though you scan through each post barely taking in the meaning, looking for anything that you can get on your soapbox over. How is this country supposed to forget race, if we can't be honest and sincere? If we must police our language and thoughts to the point where we are saying nothing?

    Oh please! You think it is just a one way conversations, whites complain about blacks and no one can say anything back? That's not the way it goes. If you can hurl the challenge then by prepared for the response, that's life, that's the way it goes. There are two sides to this debate regarding race and actually many sides, but the point is that no one holds the cornerstone on it, and until you can handle the challenge that you created, then your sermonizing makes absolutely no sense to me.

    You contradict your own comment within it's very content.

    Actually that is YOU. You want sincere honest response, but it is just the responses that you approve?!. Everyone is trying to generalize stereotype and paint blacks ONE WAY, negative, close minded, and it seems like anytime anyone responds to it, people have a problem. It's makes no sense. The honest dialogue to me is really about closed dialogue. The closed dialogue is really and essentially about whites complaining about black people and no one can say anything in response to it. And NO I am not referring to this silly debate that is really small in the first place, but my overall observation on people who claim they want honest dialogue on race, but do the back pedal when blacks or whites or hispanics or asians or gays start responding to the gross inaccuracies and stereotypes that abound.

    Do you have some deep need to prove to others possibly even yourself, that you, as a white woman, are NOT racist? This is not the way to go about it.

    I laughed so hard. You don't know me, you have no idea who I am or where I come from. Don't embarass yourself by ASSUming anything at all about me. You are making a total fool of yourself.

  • Layla33
    Layla33

    Dan,

    Of course I realize that every person regardless of their racial makeup has prejudices of varying degrees, and in no way was I trying to suggest that blacks are worse in this regard

    Thank you for the clarification when I first read your posts, it truly seemed like you were trying to paint blacks as a very closed homogenous group that doesn't allow (that part I don't get) for freedom of thought or that blacks are less open than whites. I got that from this remark you wrote:

    black people seem to enforce cultural homogeneity among themselves more strongly than whites do.

    ^^^^

    For you to make that statement, you as a white person were showing bias to me. Enforce homogeneity? How does this enforcement go? I need to understand that and where it happens because I challenge that on so many levels and I really thought it was lacking. IN FACT, that is the only reason I responded in the first place. And please don't use the media as your barometer.

    But then you wrote this:

    I'm sure some would think those comments are racist or way off the mark but I don't think it's racism to point out that many blacks have deep prejudices of their own.

    So even you admit that what you were writing was probably prejudicial, but the WAY YOU WROTE IT really seemed that you were judging black people and implying that many of them have deep prejudices. My question to you is can you admit that many WHITE PEOPLE including yourself have deep prejudices and that maybe your entire stance is marred because of it?

  • StAnn
    StAnn

    To me, Obama is not a black man or a white man. To me, Obama is an ultra-liberal. Period.

    Guess I'm just one of those bitter midwesterners, clinging to guns and religion for solace, but I'm opposed to Obama because of his political positions. And I think lumping every black in America into one group, i.e., "black Americans", assumes that each black American is going to march in lock-step, thinking and voting the same way. The black Americans I know are, surprisingly, diverse, know how to think for themselves, and will each vote for a president based upon that candidate's record. Amazing.

    Maybe I'm completely out of touch but I don't think I'm part of "white America." I'm just an American, and I don't think that "black America" is as well-defined and organized as the pundits would have us believe. In the end, we're all just Americans, including Obama.

    Stann

  • DanTheMan
    DanTheMan
    How does this enforcement go? [...] And please don't use the media as your barometer.

    I'll let the white and black readers of this thread decide for themselves if the experience of the black writer that I spoke of previously jives with their own personal experiences with and observations of black folks, and if they don't agree (as you obviously don't), that's fine!

    My question to you is can you admit that many WHITE PEOPLE including yourself have deep prejudices

    Of course!

    and that maybe your entire stance is marred because of it?

    My "entire stance"? What do you mean?

  • Layla33
    Layla33
    My "entire stance"? What do you mean?

    Dan,

    I meant just your entire "view" of blacks and then making assessments of them.

    I'll let the white and black readers of this thread decide for themselves if the experience of the black writer that I spoke of previously jives with their own personal experiences with and observations of black folks, and if they don't agree (as you obviously don't), that's fine!

    Oh, so you don't think there are just as many black writers that completely write something different or that there aren't white writers that denounce how biased and judgemental many whites can be when making assessments of blacks? I mean where does it end? That's my point. I find that if it is to be an "us" versus "them" mentality, then you will never ever have peace. No one wants to be sermonized on who they are just because of their color of skin. You wouldn't like it if someone sat there and wrote a bunch of heaping observations about White Americans and used one supposed "authority" as their expert opinion. It's silly.

    I liked what someone just added to this topics, it is completely the point I was trying to make:

    The black Americans I know are, surprisingly, diverse, know how to think for themselves, and will each vote for a president based upon that candidate's record. Amazing. ... don't think that "black America" is as well-defined and organized as the pundits would have us believe. In the end, we're all just Americans, including Obama.

    It is my opinion that overall especially in the media and in other venues, that whites are totally allowed to be individuals, with individuals judged by their behaviors, example George Bush speaks for "some whites", Howard Stern speaks for "some whites", while individuals blacks are not allowed to be individuals and always are used to generalize "the group".Jesse Jackson speaks for "all blacks", Al Sharpton speaks for "all blacks". A black person has a few superficial interactions with some whites, if they dare to generalize, they are chatized because whites are individuals. However, those same whites will have a few superficial interactions with blacks and they will make group assessments and challenge those that question it. Whites = Individuals, Blacks = lack of individuality.

    Anyway, thanks for the clarification. It is not a big deal to me.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    The more important question is who is really backing a lawyer with less than 4 years Federal experience to front this campaign?

    Well let's see; there's me.... and.... ok, lessee, if 1.5 million other people like me "back" Obama to the tune of 75 bucks American, that's 112 million right there. Not a bad start. Then, if just 5% of that 1.5 million (75,000) peeps give the maximum $2300.00, he's "backed" an additional 170 million approx. So this fine man with great judgement is "backed" to the tune of almost 400 mil just from rednecks and hillbillies like you and me. Imagine the numbers if some high-falutin elitist doctors and lawyers start kicking in.

  • amicus
    amicus
    ultra-liberal

    I don't think such a beast exists any longer. I remember reading a piece about Nixon a while ago, the author suggested that if Nixon was judged by todays standards he would be considered a Liberal.

    Obama is conservative to moderate. We live in a time when extreme right wing conservatives make policy. I think the long view serves best when discussing politics.

  • hillbilly
    hillbilly

    Well let's see; there's me.... and.... ok, lessee, if 1.5 million other people like me "back" Obama to the tune of 75 bucks American, that's 112 million right there. Not a bad start. Then, if just 5% of that 1.5 million (75,000) peeps give the maximum $2300.00, he's "backed" an additional 170 million approx. So this fine man with great judgement is "backed" to the tune of almost 400 mil just from rednecks and hillbillies like you and me. Imagine the numbers if some high-falutin elitist doctors and lawyers start kicking in. ~6 o 9

    I hear that... but those dollars are from the Barockstar Obama bandwagon folks...the johnny-come-lately crowd.

    Who really put this kid on point? I mean the smokey back room guys. What faction of the Democratic party... or group that could manipulate the party for their agenda is putting the Obama guy's face on the poster?

    Heading back to the double- wide for a beer and more mouth breathing..........this angry white man gig is hard work!

    Hill

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