by Terry 53 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I certainly enjoyed that Terry, and it brought to mind this exchange....
Hedley Lamarr: My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.
Taggart: God darnit, Mr. Lamarr, you use your tongue prettier than a twenty dollar whore.
Glad to have you back,
ringo5
Terry: You ask: "Is your criticism equally unsupported?" Yes. My fallacy is Argumentum ad Numerum. Your fallacy is Argumentum ad Populum. I am merely pointing out that you have written an excellent propaganda piece. A smart JW (and there are some still in the organization) would be clued to the nature of your rant by the type of emotional language you use. "Such a stupid religion" the apostate declared. If stating facts and presenting good arguments doesn't work should you use propaganda? Propaganda appeals to the weak intellect.
We got into the organization in the late 30s when Rutherford was at his most tyranical (or maynr at the beginning of his tyranny) when "Religion is a Snare and a Racket" and people gave up their homes and lives and became "pioneers" in their cars. I suppose the depression had a lot to do with that. I have seen all the changes you depicted and totally agree that what you are saying is the absolute truth.
Eliveleth - I got into the organization in the early 50's and have also personally experienced many of the changes that Terry mentioned. I remember when you could actually ask questions without getting ostracized. I clearly remember the 1975 predictions and the later denials, "The Society never said anything about 1975. Just some over-zealous publishers who got out of line."
Nice job, Terry. Please keep coming back....
Terry, great thoughts in your post.
Let's remember that Russell, Rutherford, and the team of Knorr and Franz all had
a great prophecy of a date for the end of the world. Each was disappointed.
Although there were 50 years between Rutherford's and Knorr/Franz's end date,
there were many indicators that the end is imminent inbetween. Since 1975, those
have been occurring again, but with less effectiveness.
They will have to continue warping their theology and doctrines, searching for
obscure meanings for Greek words, pressing for a new reason for people to believe
the end is imminent
Terry: You ask: "Is your criticism equally unsupported?" Yes. My fallacy is Argumentum ad Numerum. Your fallacy is Argumentum ad Populum. I am merely pointing out that you have written an excellent propaganda piece. A smart JW (and there are some still in the organization) would be clued to the nature of your rant by the type of emotional language you use. "Such a stupid religion" the apostate declared. If stating facts and presenting good arguments doesn't work should you use propaganda? Propaganda appeals to the weak intellect.
My Topic is a precis. It functions as an outline to a history of the religion with which most of us here are quite (over) familiar.
I certainly could support whatever part of my "rant" you may find un-supportable, if it will do you any good. In fact, I invite you to detail for me the parts you feel that I could NOT support and I'll see what I can come up with for you.
How is that for co-operation?
T
p.s. "Stupid is as stupid does." Forrest Gump
A religion which continually makes predictions in the name of God and those predictions fail to come to pass becomes a religion of stupid people automatically.
Terry: Actually, after reading it again, it IS quite fair in its description. Not nearly as much invective as I thought was there. Never mind.
Terry: As usual, another masterpiece. What surprises me is that we "apostates" who have lost God's favor, according to the WT, seem to understand the workings and hypocrisy of the WT far more than the rank and file. That doesn't speak well for people who have been pioneering 20 or 30 years. That has to set off alarm bells in someone's head.
Proplog2: Just like all the other JW's, you have fallen prey to the very "illogical" thinking that you accuse everyone else of doing. "It" appeals to those who have left because active JW's aren't allowed to think or read books. That is brain washing. It is NOT because they considered all the evidence and still chose the WT. The shame is that they have NOT been allowed to hear the other side of the story. Riddled with unsupported statements?? I don't see how you can say that with a straight face. I have a degree in Psychology and what most JW's do is called "cognitive dissonance". It means that they know the WT is wrong deep down, but they stay for family, friends, whatever. It is the WT's very lack of ever proving their outrageous beliefs that drove most of us to leave. How can God use a religion and call it "The Truth" when the WT lies every chance it gets.
What Terry wrote was not a rant. If you want rants, then listen to Rutherford's records or read material from 50 years ago. They sound like lunatics. We who oppose the WT can prove everything we say. You cannot prove what you believe. Who's brainwashed????
I don't care if CoC or Terry's piece is considered the final word. But the WT doesn't consider the Bible the last word. The Bible is not brought into many issues because the WT has already ruled.
I suggest you do more research, and this time, use an open mind. Remember, those who throw mud at people who really know the truth now that they've left the WT, usually gets 3 times more mud thrown at them. I advise you not to start a war here. You will either be ignored or you will be destroyed by people here who really know the truth and use logic.
Great synopsis of WT history!
Actually, after reading it again, it IS quite fair in its description. Not nearly as much invective as I thought was there. Never mind.
No harm; no foul there good buddy.
Fair is fair.
I don't ask that people necessarily agree with my opinion, of course, but; I think my connection with Jehovah's Witnesses over a long span of time
has given me a certain vantage point.
If I had to guess I'd say the average "life expectancy" of the JW from baptism to leaving is about 5 years. It is very difficult to get any kind of broad view on the organization's history, philosophy, psychology and trends in such a small window of time.
The people I've known all my life who remain inside the Kingdom Hall are angry people still "waiting on Jehovah" to deal with their oppressors at the top of the food chain. They aren't naive so much as crippled. They have had all alternatives removed (so they think).
Those dependant on an Organization who thinks FOR them cannot see personal freedom of thought and choice as any kind of alternative escape.
I think of birds in those phony Rain Forest exhibits at the zoo. No walls hold them inside; only fear of the darkness.
In my own view it started off wrong and its gonna finish wrong. The madness has always been there, right from the beginning.
