DO NOT CONTINUE SENDING EMAILS TO ME OR ATTEMPT TO CONTACT ME OR MY FAMILY.

by esw1966 55 Replies latest jw friends

  • fjtoth
    fjtoth

    Whether we try communicating with our JW relatives tomorrow, next year or twenty years from now, the response will be the same. We need to understand that. There is never going to be a time when a JW in need will turn to an "apostate" relative for help, even if he or she is down to the last crumb of bread or last drop of water. Just as they will turn down blood that would likely keep them alive, they will turn down help from a non-JW relative, no matter how much they may be in need. If we don't understand that, we weren't in the organization long enough to know better.

    As for the situation between my mother and me, there are thousands of similar cases around the world. JWs preach that there is little or no "natural affection" in the world, but they are among those who are most outstanding in the lack of it. And the majority remain blind to that fact all their lives. Rather than think highly of family relationships, they eagerly obey instructions from men they never met who tell them to stop speaking to the members of their own intimate family who leave the organization.

    If family relationships matter more to us than freedom from mind control and personal regimentation by misguided leaders at headquarters, we should have stayed as we were. We should have known that we would be ostracized when we walked away from the organization. Now is not the time to be lamenting what we've done. Now is not the time to be thinking that maybe they will change if we try to be nice to them. The ONLY thing that will change their minds about us is our crawling back on our hands and knees as we beg for their forgiveness. If our relatives will welcome us on that basis only, why should we fret and fuss about getting back into their good graces? Such an attitude on our part is what they expect. As they see us, we are weeping and wailing and gnashing our teeth because of the calamities befalling us outside the "paradisaic conditions" of their organization. Why should we even in the slightest give them an inkling that such is the case, when in actuality it is not?

    On the other hand, why should we try to make their lives more miserable? They don't want us in their lives, unless we meet the approval of men who rule over them and are no part of their intimate family and ours. They've rejected kinship with us in favor of a spiritual relationship with those men. Their happiness is with those men and not with us, unless we renounce what we have done and go crawling back in search of their forgiveness.

    I know of two cases where the JW parents became incapable of looking after themselves, and their "disassociated" children and grandchildren made efforts to care for them. This was met with legal opposition obtained by financial support from the congregations involved, so that the children were forced to abandon any hope of caring for their parents who were in the December of their lives. So, folks, please understand what you are dealing with here. You are at odds with an organization that feels it has ownership of your JW relatives -- a wealthy organization that will oppose your every effort to be united with your family. In addition to that, your JW relatives like it that way. They don't want YOU. They want the friends they have who are in submission with them to those distant owners of their lives at headquarters. If you die before they do, they will not weep for you. You should understand that clearly. They will simply bemoan the fact that you "missed out on everlasting life," and just as God doesn't want you -- as they see him -- they don't want you either. On the other hand, they will gladly die for those non-members of your family who legislate to them from Brooklyn headquarters on how you should be viewed and treated.

    Frank

  • Bobbi
    Bobbi

    Just think about it.. It took a year of your emails before she replied which to me sounds like she had to struggle to make the break from you. In her mind she is doing what is best for herself and her family even though it hurts her. You should respect her decision and leave the line of communication open if she ever changes her mind.

  • fjtoth
    fjtoth

    Bobbi,

    I know you have kindness in your heart and can probably only think the best of others. But please look at this situation from the JW organization's standpoint. According to "esw" (the one who started this thread), his sister and her husband are "basically fanatical" JWs.

    I highly doubt that her not answering his emails was because "she had to struggle" to make the break from him. She was simply doing what the organization demands of her. The rule of the organization is that communication with disfellowshiped and disassociated persons must come to a complete stop, except possibly for necessary family business. That basically means "cease and desist, or else you will get disfellowshiped too!" That is a rule that has been in place for decades. Most JWs do not struggle in their minds and hearts with this requirement. In their hearts, they feel the organization's rule is the only way to teach the departing person a lesson. And they demonstrate much more concern for obedience to the organization than they show a desire to keep up family relationships.

    She finally wrote, but not to express appreciation for his concern and interest in the family. Instead, she wrote as coldly as she could, as I see it:"DO NOT CONTINUE SENDING EMAILS TO ME OR ATTEMPT TO CONTACT ME OR MY FAMILY."

    Where is the evidence of "struggle" and "hurt" or even that there might be a 'change of mind' someday?

    Frank

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Frank is right. Send her flowers with a note that says, "Kiss My Ass."

  • Highlander
    Highlander

    Now is not the time to be thinking that maybe they will change if we try to be nice to them.

    You make a great point Frank,

    If we allows ourselves to think that by being nice to them, then maybe, just maybe they will change their ways,,, then we are falling back on our old j-dub way of thinking. The j-dubs use this very strategy in trying to win over unbelieving spouses.

    You're right,, it's time to face reality.

  • cabasilas
    cabasilas

    There is not just one way to deal with these sort of situations. I have had JWs tell me never to contact them and then later have had contact develop again. One close friend once told me never to attempt to make any contact and a couple of years later I saw him alone in a store. I decided I would at least smile and say "Hi, xxxx" and to my surprise we ended up having a 20 minute conversation. It turns out that when he told me not to make contact he was doing so mainly because his wife was pressuring him. He still remains a JW but we still trade an occasional email. I've had two other similar situations.

    Even the Witnesses make occasional contacts on "Do Not Calls" to see if the situation has changed. I would say that even if someone has been rude to you and told you never to contact them to still show them kindness when you encounter them in the future don't assume the worst. I remember being a very stalwart JW myself and simultaneously having periods of doubt. When JWs make these sort of statements ("Never talk to me again!") they do it under duress and some are conflicted about it. I know that was my case. Most of the time I would never have given a former JW the time of day. But, during my periods of doubt I think I might have "crossed the line" and spoken to an old friend if the situation was private enough.

  • fjtoth
    fjtoth

    cabasilas,

    I have had JWs tell me never to contact them and then later have had contact develop again.

    Are you willing to say that this is somewhere near the norm among JWs? Were these JWs obeying orders from headquarters, or were they showing laxity in their obedience? If an elder or other "faithful" JW caught them speaking with you, what do you think would have happened to them? I think you are pointing us to JWs who are weak in meeting attendance and field service, not to the type we are discussing -- the type who appear to be "basically fanatical" as JWs.

    Even the Witnesses make occasional contacts on "Do Not Calls" to see if the situation has changed.

    Here you are writing about something completely different. "Do Not Calls" are not in the same category as "Disassociated" and "Disfellowshiped." There is a worldwide ban on speaking with the latter, but there is no such arbitrary rule concerning unbaptized persons who tell JWs to stay away. A JW will not get disfellowshiped for speaking with such persons -- not for that alone -- but he surely will get disfellowshiped for speaking to a baptized person who is regarded as an "apostate," that is, unless he has a mighty powerful excuse that will satisfy every elder in his congregation.

    When JWs make these sort of statements ("Never talk to me again!") they do it under duress and some are conflicted about it.

    I wonder what your source is for "they." Has there been a survey taken among JWs that convincingly confirms your belief that the majority are uneasy about this policy -- a policy that has been submissively adhered to for half a century by millions of JWs worldwide?

    My experience has been that JWs generally are eager to show their support for the organization by going even beyond what is required of them in this matter. For example, they are told not to engage in conversations with ex-JWs, but some will even cross the street when they see one of them coming their way. If you go to their home, they won't answer the door. If you phone, they hang up as soon as they recognize your voice. And often JWs boast to the media and to others that their organization is "clean" because it disfellowships persons "who are wrongdoers," -- the wrongdoing in many cases being their questioning or mere doubting of the organization's teachings, including the one on disfellowshiping.

    Frank

  • Scully
    Scully
    You are dealing with a religionCULT here, a religionCULT that requires your JW relatives to ignore you.

    And the JW relatives have a CHOICE to make. Shun you and show their Loyalty To Jehovah™, or associate with you and be in league with Satan the Devil™. There's no room for middle ground, except when they need $$omething from you.

    Should we not show ourselves respectful of others regardless of their obligationCHOICE to show disrespect toward us?

    It isn't even so much about being respectful of them. This is what gets a lot of exJWs enmeshed in a very unhealthy mindset: We feel an obligation to "respect" the "disrespecters" and an emotional power struggle ensues - it still puts the JWs in a position of power and exJWs in the position of being disempowered. It sets up the dynamic where we are obliged to be nice to them if they are nice to us. They call us out of the blue and open a dialogue to test the waters, so we feel obliged to take the bait and respond kindly and lovingly, hopeful that this is the start of a lovely reconciliation. The next call reveals an ulterior motive - they need $$omething from us - and because the unhealthy dynamic exists where we want to be hopeful that all will be forgiven and we can all be a happy family again, we get sucked in and feel obliged to try and give them what they ask of us, only to be treated like pond scum again once we do.

    They made the choice to cut us out of their lives unless we return to the JWs. Let them suffer the consequences of that choice. We do not have to SUFFER - we can make our lives full and productive and happy without them. They are the ones who have isolated themselves from us and everyone on the outside of the cult. We do not have to be held hostage to them or the beliefs they hold or the choices they make by some false sense or obligation of "respect".

    The JWs create emotional trainwrecks with their shunning policy - we can choose to sit in the wreckage with them and remain damaged - or we can get up and walk away from it. In a real accident situation we would stay and try to assist the ones who need help - but if they don't want help, we move on to the ones who want our help. When you have someone who stops you from helping them out of the wreckage and keeps you focused on them when it is dangerous to do so, you have to leave them behind. When there isn't anyone who wants your help, you walk away, knowing that you did what you could, and get on with the business of living.

    Do you really want to waste another second of YOUR life on someone who wouldn't care enough to spit on you if you were on fire?

    The only way to stop emotional blackmail and emotional terrorism is to stop feeding the relationship. Yes, there will be times when something will happen that HURTS. You'll be left out of weddings and you won't find out about babies being born and loved ones dying. It shows THEIR level of dysfunction. It shows THEIR need to lash out and hurt you. It shows that THEY are the ones stuck with the conflict. If we pick ourselves up and dust ourselves off and keep living our lives without them, they can't keep hurting us.

  • besty
    besty

    My brother (elder PO hardliner) has recently asked for emergency contact only, probably based on something like:

    Persons who make themselves 'not of our sort' by deliberately rejecting the faith and beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses should appropriately be viewed and treated as are those who have been disfellowshiped for wrongdoing. -- The Watchtower, September 15, 1981, page 23.

    We have not been DF'd or DA'd - due to lack of evidence I suspect as we are definitely in the apostacamp :-)

    Complicating factor is our two young children - I am in two minds about whether to allow family access. It seems a shame for my brother to miss out on seeing his only nephews and for the boys to miss out on the compny of their only uncle, who is fundamentally a 'good' person. Decisions.decisions....

  • Scully
    Scully

    Complicating factor is our two young children - I am in two minds about whether to allow family access. It seems a shame for my brother to miss out on seeing his only nephews and for the boys to miss out on the compny of their only uncle, who is fundamentally a 'good' person. Decisions.decisions....

    Ask yourself whether you are confident that your brother will not disrespect you and your wife by "inculcating" JW beliefs into your children behind your back.

    If you think that is a possibility, then you have to do what is in your children's best interests to stop them being sucked back into the JWs, right under your nose.

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